Angel // Babylon 5 // Work News

[thalia_seawood]

Well, another month has passed without me posting to my LJ. Since RL was still very busy, I also haven't read any entries on my flist for ages. I have definitely a lot of catching up to do.


I've finally completed watching Angel. And now I miss the Jossverse so much that I'm reading loads of fanfiction to make up for the withdrawal symptoms. :-)

I've also decided to introduce my oldest friend to Buffy and I will show her some episodes on Friday night. I'm planning on showing her the episodes that selenak used to get me hooked, i.e. Hush, Fool for Love and Once More With Feeling.
Lie to Me might also be on the agenda; if I remember correctly that's a very nice season 2 episode that's not really tied to a bigger arc. If anyone else has suggestions, let me know.

My impressions regarding Angel:
My favorite parts in season 4 revolve around the father-son relationship between Angel and Connor. But, gah, season 4 is big time tragic! I want to rewatch certain episodes, but I'll need a bit of distance first.
I loved Faith coming back. I loved that Faith and Wesley worked together, because Angel means so much to them. Considering what happened when Faith and Wesley met the last time, that's very impressive.

Season 5 is not exactly light either, but it does have a lot of moments where I had to laugh out loud. The bickering between Angel and Spike is just priceless. (I totally agree with Joss Whedon's comment that with Spike they finally found the right girl for Angel. :-)) Simply thinking about their argument regarding astronauts and cavemen makes me smile.

Season 5 also has such wonderfully funny episodes like Smile Time (Wee Little Puppet Man!) and The Girl in Question, an episode I already watched 3 times.
Other season 5 favorites include Damage ("He's alive Frodo, he's alive." :-)), Destiny and A Hole in the Ground.

My favorite relationships in season 5 were between Angel & Spike (surprise), Angel & Connor and Wesley & Illyria.

Angel and Spike:
Their relationship is absolutely fascinating. I've read the criticism that season 5 Spike doesn't have much in common with season 7 Spike from Buffy. That's a criticism I don't share. Yes, Spike acts differently here - he's acting a lot like an annoying teenage brat - but that's a very believable behaviour, IMO. After all, his interaction with Angel is very different from his interaction with Buffy. You can compare the situation to going away from home for a long period. You will make lots of experiences and grow up - but when you're back with your family, you might still be treated like a child and it will be easy to fall back into your old patterns. That's what seems to happen to Spike when he's around Angel - and vice versa, to Angel around Spike.
Now if there relationship stayed exactly the same during all of season 5, it would be boring. But you can see that they are growing up. From time to time, they have serious conversations where they really understand and help one another. I found these moments very touching. (I also find it quite interesting that Spike knows Angel's original name "Liam" - probably heard it from Darla - and that Angel admits to liking William's poetry... Angel(us) definitely has a mushy streak in his personality.)

Angel and Connor:
I really missed Connor as a regular character and was happy to see him again in at least some episodes.
Am very glad that there was some resolution to the relationship between Angel and Connor, i.e. that Connor remembers Angel is his father and understands why Angel did what he did. The price Angel paid was extremely high, but I get his motivation. I can't really regret that he gave his son a set of happy/healthy memories.

Wesley and Illyria:
Transforming Fred into Illyria was a brilliant idea, IMO.
Fred is lot like Kaylee from Firefly. She's a wonderfully warm personality - who's also extremely brilliant in her field and can be incredibly resourceful. Of course, Fred also has her dark moments... Still, like Jonathan on Buffy it felt as if her character had reached the end of its arc.
So introducing Illyria was a fascinating idea. It shakes things up big time while allowing Amy Acker to stay on the show with a definite challenge. And I have to say I'm really impressed by how Amy Acker portrays Illyria, how she at times integrates mannerisms of Fred into Illyria's behaviour or switches from one personality to the other. (Hey, in the Jossverse basically every actor gets the chance to play at least one alter ego - multiple personalities including various states of soulfulness, wishverse, amnesia, possession, ... :-))
The relationship between Wesley and Illyria is heartbreakingly lovely. The absolute tragic highlight is, of course, Wesley's death ("Shall I lie to you now?").

Also liked Gunn's development in season 5. It made sense to me that he would crave more knowledge in order to hold his own regarding Wesley and Fred.

Season 5 ends on an absolute cliff hanger, but actually I don't mind that. Ending season 5 with a sucessfully won fight would have been ultrasweet and showing them lose the fight would have been depressing. I think if there had been a season 6, they might have been rescued by an army of Slayer girls. Wouldn't Angel have loved that... :-)

What I miss about not having a season 6 is: No more Angel - Spike relationship, no more Connor, no more Illyria. :-(
Luckily I found a virtual season 6 here. From what I've seen so far, the writers did a great job. They even manage to bring Wesley back with an extremely great explanation.


:
Also finished watching Babylon 5, another show that I will miss.
After my husband and I watched the last episode (we both needed hankies by the end :-)), I made him watch episode # 1 - and wow, it's amazing how far all the characters came.


:
Since last week, I'm officially team manager. Since my manager was happy with my work and my team members all told him that they wanted to keep me as manager, I've got to keep the job.
The former team manager is now working in project management which is a job she likes. So I don't have to feel guilty about replacing her. Yay!

Comments

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Congratulations on being team manager! And on finishing AtS and B5. Re: your observations, yes yes yes (which is boring, but much like I felt at the time). One word about Illyria: before she appeared, there was a lot of Amy Acker bashing (she can't act, she has no chemistry with Alexis Denisof, etc.); after Illyria showed up on the show, those criticisms disappeared into thin air.

And of course you know I always inflict my fanfic (just a selection, don't worry!) on you when you've reached this stage, and my meta:

My Connor essay, covering his arc and function in the series.

My Londo essay, ditto for B5.

Fanfic:

The Haunting, Hunted Kind - Darla and Connor


White Lies - what became of the four telepaths we saw the Emperor in "Coming of Shadows"; co-starring Londo Mollari, of course

Confessions of a Biographer - oh, the difficulty of being the Centauri who writes the official life of Londo Mollari

Ouroborous - this one is an Angel/Sandman crossover but I'm assured works if you haven't read Sandman as well, and it's basically my take on what happens to Connor post - Not Fade Away

Seven Virtues - an Alfred Bester portrait

Debts - Wesley meets Connor post-Origin


The Burying Kind - another Angel crossover, this one with a show named Six Feet Under and with BTVS, but again, I'm told it works if you don't know Six Feet Under. My big ensemble piece that deals with Cordelia's funeral in season 5 and everyone's reactions.

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

hanks so much for all the recommendations!

I just read "Debts" and really liked it. You capture the voices of Wesley and Connor perfectly. The relationship between Wesley and Connor definitely needed some sort of resolution in canon; your story provides the closure that was missing.

I guess if there had been a season 6, Wesley would have been back. Usually, when characters die for good in the Jossverse, they have reached a point when their life is complete in a way (Doyle, Jonathan, Fred). But Wesley's life... there are s brilliant that you addressed this in your story.still so many unresolved issues, e.g. his relationship with his father, his relationship with Angel, Gunn and Connor. And yes, the relationship most in need of resolution is the one with Connor, because Wesley needs Connor to forgive him. It's brilliant that your story focuses on this.

Regarding Illyria:
I heart this character. Stories that focus on characters losing an enormous amounts of power have always fascinated me. (E.g. Q in "Deja Q" or Raphael in MacAvey's "Raphael" that I read in my early teens.)
And it gets even better since she has access to Fred's memory and is subtly influenced by them.

Playing Fred must have been tough for Amy Acker. Portraying a character that's good, gentle and kind most of the time is always tricky. Characters that are snarky (Buffy or Spike), rough/mysterious/broody (season 4 Wesley) are much bigger fan magnets.
What's fascinating is that Fred isn't all that different from Willow and Kaylee - and yet these two characters are more popular. I wonder why that is.

Has Connor's character become more popular in the meantime? I just don't get why he was unpopular at all. The character is complex: both strong and fragile. And the actor does such an amazing job of appearing both young and old/world-weary or in season 5 enthusiastic and more grounded. Also the resemblance to both Darla and Angel is perfect. Hail to the casting team!

One completely unrelated thought:
I think I love Angel's relationship with Connor and Spike so much, because with them he doesn't have that much chance to pretend. He feels more vulnerable and real around them when he usually tries to keep his emotional distance. Of course, Spike has the absolute advantage for riling Angel up as they've known each other for such a long time.
And isn't it interesting that during "Why We Fight" a souled Angel meets Spike, but does neither attempt to stake him nor does he threaten him? They definitely have a complex bond. The morally right decision would have been for Angel to kill Spike (and Lawson) in order to prevent them from killing, but it seems that Angel is deeply reluctant to kill Spike.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

If there had been a season 6, Wesley wouldn't have been killed off to begin with - Joss said this was the one change they made for the finale after getting the news of the cancellation.

Fred vs Willow and Kaylee: I think the difference in audience perception is that Willow and Kaylee were part of the ensemble of their shows from the start, whereas Fred didn't show up until the end of s2 and became a member in s3. Any new character gets resented and distrusted by a part of the audience (why does he/she get the screentime, and not old favourite x? He/she is spoiling the relationship between x and y!), and then, Fred's first season as a full member of the cast was 3, arguably the weakest of the show, so a lot of the general complaints probably were associated with her.

(The new cast member thing also applies to Connor in its way, oh, and Spike in s5, because despite Spike's overwhelming popularity over at BTVS, there was a part of the fandom who really resented that he was brought over to AtS, were afraid this would come at the expense of the AtS characters, destroy their dynamic, et., etc. They also resented those new watchers who hadn't watched AtS from the beginning and only started because of Spike. As rozk once phrased it, "admirers of AtS were not necessarily admirers of Spike, and vice versa".)

(Me, I'd have been content after s7 of BTVS if he had remained dead, but I also thought he was used wonderfully well in s5 of AtS, and loved the exploration of his dynamic with Angel. And no, I didn't think he spoiled the show.*g* More in my season 5 meta, which also focuses on Why We Fight, but from a slightly different angle than Elisi's linked below.)

Has Connor's character become more popular in the meantime?

Barely. I had assumed so, because I have several Connor fans on my flist, which always skewers perspectives, but then several other flisters (other than you) started to watch AtS for the first time, and, well, the reactions were mostly hostile, so I ventured out and found it's still the same. It was partly the reason why I wrote my essay about him, because several people had told me they couldn't understand what I saw in "the whiny brat". It's Anakin revisited, I tell you.

(And speaking of Star Wars and AtS, here's a Five things meme featuring both.)

I think I love Angel's relationship with Connor and Spike so much, because with them he doesn't have that much chance to pretend. He feels more vulnerable and real around them when he usually tries to keep his emotional distance.

Definitely, and I'd like to second the reccomendation of Kita's "Manus", which explores that wonderfully well in a fanfiction way. Bue-eyed boys he argues with and blonde women who love him and kill him; it's a pattern in Angel's life. I also think the character is most accessible for me as a viewer if he's shown in these family relationships and their convoluted intensity (see also some thoughts about Angel the character from yours truly).

Lastly, just so you see I am able of being critical about the Jossverse: my take on what happened to Cordelia, i.e. the writing of same, and why.

[lynnenne]

*rolls up sleeves*

elisi has recently been writing episode-by-episode reviews and analyses of AtS Season 5. You'd probably enjoy her Spike on AtS essay (hint: it's all about Angel :) and her review of "Why We Fight" (one of my favorite episodes of the season).

If you're looking for Angel/Spike fic, well... most of it is slashy. At least, most of the stuff I read. *g* Start with Manus by kita0610. It's rated PG, and it says everything there is to say about the parallels between Spike and Connor and the roles they play in Angel's life. Plus, Kita's way with words will leave you breathless. She sets the bar for fanfic so high, you will never look at it the same way again.

I would also highly, highly recommend anything by romanyg. Romany writes the best Spike-voice of anyone in fandom. Her fic, His Body a Boat, is a masterpiece of economical writing.

You'll really enjoy AtS: No Limits. It's incredibly well done. I so wish they had gone on to write a season 7. :(

Check out my memories for more great fic and essays, by many other terrific writers. (Oh, and my own stuff is in there, too. :)

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

Thanks for your recs! I have read "Manus" and "His Body a Boat" and yes, both fics are outstanding!

Will now go on to check out your memories section.

Word about "AtS: No Limits". So far I'm impressed. They really capture what the show was about and make great use of all the minor characters as well. Love that Connor is part of the virtual season 6 as well.

[elisi]

Best Spike/Angel fic of all time is germaine_pet's Vicarious. NC-17, but the sex almost isn't the point... you'll see what I mean. It is quite possibly the greatest fic of all time! (And it's not very long either - it's more like poetry. I am so in awe!)

[lynnenne]

*blushes madly* Thank you! :)))

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

Oh, this story is shiny and deserves all the praise! (I left a more coherent review as comment on your LJ.)

Have you ever written a Buffy/Spike/Angel story? Because I have no doubt you would get the chemistry between them exactly right.

[lynnenne]

The only Buffy/Spike/Angel I've written is the one elisi recced, below. It's very short (300 words).

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the rec. Read it, loved it, reviewed it. :-)
Your icon is lovely, by the way! (Reminds me to get myself a couple of Angel/Spike icons. :-))

[elisi]

Thanks for the rec.
My pleasure. :)

If you're looking for Spike/Angel stuff, then spring_spangel is a good place! And amavel_bel has tons of stuff!

Also I love *your* icon, since OT3 is the way to go! :) (I've even written threesome fic myself, although it's rather long... and I think I've already rec'd about a million things. I'll stop now, promise.)

If you want something short and sweet of the OT3 variety, germaine_pet wrote this Kisses Like Nothing Else. Hits all of my kinks oh so very hard!

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

Oh, I read your lovely threesome fic! (And was too vegged out to leave any comments. *hangs head in shame*) I plan to work ordinary hours again, though, which means time for reviews, time for reading fic and time for commenting on essays and fic.
I'm definitely planning on reading your story again and will comments this time around.

By the way, did you write more of your wonderfully dysfunctional Spike/Dawn story?

Regarding threesomes:
I was never interested in threesomes before Joss. But ever since Angelus/Drusilla/Spike since have never been the same for me. I prefer Angel/Buffy/Spike, though, because reading about functioning relationships cheers me up. :-) And Angel/Buffy/Spike would have its problems and complications (which makes it intersting), but it would also *work*.
(Another threesome Joss got me to like was season 2 Wes/Cordelia/Gunn. :-))

[lynnenne]

Ohh! I also wrote a William/Angelus/Drusilla fic, set immediately post-"Destiny." Very dysfunctional. *G*

OK, I'll stop pimping stuff now. *slinks off*

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

Funnily enough their relationship is dysfunctional by human standards, but highly functional by demon standards. After all, they spent a lot of time together... obviously, they kept each other entertained. :-)

[juonetar.livejournal.com]

Hey, long time no see...

The 5th season Angel/Spike dynamics is marvellous. For that reason only I had to buy that last season on DVD though I don't own the rest of the series.

By the way, if you have time at some point in the future, you could perhaps recommend and review some Jossverse fics?

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

Hi there! How are you doing?

Season 5 doesn't have such a strong arc as the Darla arc in season 2, but IMO has the highest amount of outstanding episodes. I basically enjoyed every episode. I guess it also helps that the season 5 episodes aren't as tragic as the season 4 episodes. :-)

I'm planning on finishing the reviews for "Buffy" - after all I have only about 30 reviews left and it would be a shame to stop now.
Regarding fic recs: The fic recs germaine_pet and selenak listed in their comments to my post are excellent. I will also collect recs and post them - do you have any preferences reg. pairing or content? (I guess Angel/Spike recs would make you happy? :-))

[juonetar.livejournal.com]

Normalna, as the locals say. I am enjoying the work, and as I finally got a functioning internet access, the quality of my free time is now excellent:).

Definetely go on reviewing the rest of the Buffy! I was asking for the recs exactly on the basis of your insights and comments in your Buffy reviews. I am remarkably flexible regarding parings in Buffy-Angel-verse. I like femmeslash in this famdom more than usually, though, and don't avoid het, and I wish there was more plotty and insightful gen. Spike/Angel I like, though not the dom!Angel/sub!Spike kind. And I like Giles, Wesley and Oz in fics. And Faith, and a well-written Dru. *sigh* Actually, I like almost anything.

[elisi]

Way late - sorry about that. V. glad that you loved S5 (*cheers*) and stopped by to tell you that now you have to read all of the_royal_anna's posts! :)

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the link! I will check out all the posts. :-)