Buffy - Season 6 impressions (episode 10)

[thalia_seawood]

Wrecked

For a summary click here.


- This is the "morning after" episode that continues what was started in the last episode.

- Dawn and Tara wake up on the sofa in the Summers' living room to discover that neither Buffy nor Willow and Amy came home the night before. (Good thing Tara was there: I'm pretty sure Dawn would have started worrying about her friends otherwise.)

- Buffy and Spike go through some intense morning after awkwardness. Buffy is horrified by what she has done. Spike, on the other hand, is pleased with what has happened, yet has to realize that he will have to pursuade Buffy again and again. If he wants to succeed he will have to learn to not say everything he thinks.

SPIKE: I knew. I knew the only thing better than killing a slayer would be f-

Spike's remark rekindles some of Buffy's fears - that she's just an interesting lay for Spike - and she strikes back right away.

SPIKE: I'm just sayin' ... vampires get you hot.
BUFFY: *A* vampire got me hot. One. But he's gone. You're just...
Beat. Spike waits to see what she'll say.
BUFFY: You're just convenient.

- The relationship between Buffy/Angel and Buffy/Spike provides a fascinating contrast.

Buffy/Angel is IMO a highly idealised love on both sides. Buffy and Angel try to see the best in their partner, they ignore the other's weaknesses or - in Angel's case - decide to find them charming. His love for Buffy gives Angel the chance to feel young and innocent for a brief time.

Buffy/Spike is a completely different matter. I think that they have more in common than Buffy and Angel which allows them to uncover the other's weaknesses with ease. Am pretty sure that Spike would prefer a more peaceful relationship with Buffy, but since she doesn't find this acceptable he pushes back whenever she lashes out at him with words or deeds. Despite the violence between them I view Buffy/Spike as the more honest relationship. But yes, I do realize that's it an unhealthy relationship at the time. In fact, if Buffy was a man and Spike a woman, the abusive character would be even more obvious. The issue here is more complex since both Spike and Buffy do have additional strength and can take the physical violence more easily; what's more dangerous to them are the emotional wounds they cause one another.

- Willow and Amy return to the Summers' residence and meet Tara. Amy does unknowingly some negative advertising:

AMY: (to Tara) And Willow! She's a freaking amazing witch now. (Tara looking upset) I couldn't even keep up with her last night.
WILLOW: Amy.
AMY: No, it's true! (to Tara) I mean, I can do some transmography, but she is messing with dimensions and everything, it was awesome! This blowhard dude, first she made his mouth disappear? Thank god. And then-

- Buffy still identifies strongly with Willow:

BUFFY: No, Willow's a grownup. You know, maybe she doesn't need to be monitored.
Xander stares at her.
BUFFY: You know, she's going through something, but we're not her. I mean ... m-maybe she has reasons for acting this way. (Anya staring at her) And, so what if she crossed a line? You know, we all do stuff. Stupid stuff. But, then we learn. And, and we learn, and, and we don't do it again. Okay, so, you know, who are we to get all judgey?

- Amy introduces Willow to the warlock Rack.
Rack's place reminded me of the vampire den where Riley used to go. It's a similar situation: In both cases, people get addicted to dark urges.

Have to say I really liked the scene in Rack's "appartment":
Willow's transition from extremely insecure and shy to overtly sensual is well handled.
The effects for Willow's vision are powerful. Taking into account that the demon she sees in her vision actually crosses over to our dimension, I wonder how relevant the other parts of her vision are when we see her black eyed in the Bronze and in front of the Magic Shop.

- The one scene that didn't convince me is Amy breaking into Willow's room to steal some herbs. The intention of the scene is, of course, to show us that overusing magic can turn you in the equivalent of a junkie. However, I don't get why Amy simply doesn't buy the supplies she needs or asks Willow for them.

- I also find that Buffy realises too quickly that Willow has taken Dawn to Rack's place. The facts that Willow and Dawn aren't at home and that Amy thinks Willow might go to Rack's place, don't add up to both Willow and Dawn being there right now. The only explanation I have is that Buffy feels guilty about neglecting her sister anyway and therefore expects the worst.

- Willow taking Dawn to Rack's place is extremely irresponsible. It shows how little control Willow has left over her actions. Getting in touch with magic has become more important than anything else.

- Am surprised that Dawn is willing to wait so long for Willow without complaining. (I think she waits there for about 2 hours!) I know that I would have knocked if Willow hadn't come back after 5 minutes and I don't think I'm any more daring than Dawn. Hmmm. Maybe Rack has planted a spell that just makes you sit and wait without complaining. Or time is moving slightly differently in his place.

- Nice to see that Buffy still goes to Spike when she needs help. After all, she could have asked Xander, Anya or Tara for assistance as well. They all would have been willing to assist her in looking for Dawn.

- After overdosing on magic, Willow loses control completely and puts Dawn's life in danger. (When Dawn kicks the demon Willow has accidentally summoned, I thought that she really should get some fight training. She is talented enough.)

- Buffy and Spike arrive in time to defend Dawn.
What's interesting is that Buffy fights the demon and confronts Willow while Spike looks out for Dawn and also apparently takes her to the doctor. (I really wish there was more interaction between Spike and Dawn in season 6.)

- Love these scenes. I think they are extremely well acted.

BUFFY: (harshly) Get up.
WILLOW: (crying) I screwed it up, everything, Tara...
BUFFY: (grabs Willow's arm, pulls her to her feet) Yeah, you know what, you did screw up, okay? You could have killed her! You almost did!
WILLOW: (crying) I know! I know! I can't stop, Buffy! I tried and I can't.
BUFFY: You can.
WILLOW: (shakes head) I can't! I can't, I ju ... god, I need help. Please! (sobbing) Please help me, please.
Willow puts her arms around Buffy and continues crying.

Later:
WILLOW: I don't know. The magic, I ... I thought I had it under control, and then ... I didn't.
BUFFY: Because of Tara?
WILLOW: No. It started before she left. (pauses) It's why she left.
BUFFY: (pauses) Seemed like things were going so well.
WILLOW: It was. But I mean ... if you could be ... you know, plain old Willow or super Willow, who would you be? (looks at Buffy) I guess you don't actually have an option on the whole super thing.
BUFFY: Will, there's nothing wrong with you. You don't need magic to be special.
WILLOW: Don't I? I mean, Buffy, who was I? Just ... some girl. Tara didn't even know that girl.
BUFFY: You are more than some girl. (walks into the room) And Tara wants you to stop. She loves you.
WILLOW: We don't know that.
BUFFY: I know that. I promise you.
WILLOW: I just ... it took me away from myself, I was ... free.
BUFFY: (looks down, pensive) I get that. More than you- (breaks off) But it's wrong. People get hurt.

I already suspected the reasons for Willow's magic overuse and it's nice to see them confirmed. Willow being afraid of not being good enough as ordinary Willow is a motivation that's very plausible.

Buffy identifies with Willow once more. In the way Willow uses magic, she uses Spike in order to forget about her problems.
At first, I didn't agree with the analogy: I thought that Buffy and Spike have a better chance of building a stable relationship than Willow learning not to use magic without abusing it.
Then I realised that the analogy is apt after all: At the core of both Buffy's and Willow's problem is their self-hatred. Willow never loved herself the way she was, she needed to have special powers in order to find herself acceptable. Buffy had no such problems in the past, but ever since she got resurrected, she feels different. She doesn't know herself any longer and has come to despise herself.
If Buffy and Willow want to find happiness, they will have to learn to love themselves - even when they aren't perfect or make the wrong decisions. Only if they have achieved that, they will be able to have a healthy relationship/use magic without going overboard.

Oh, and I love the final scene that shows how both Willow and Buffy struggle with their obsessions.



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Comments

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Wrecked is an uneven episode - and hated mostly because of the magic = crack analogy drawn therein - but it has some great character scenes.

Opening scene: I, err. Wrote my first
Buffy ficlet about it.

Buffy/Spike in general: I do agree it's more honest than Buffy/Angel was, but then I don't think Buffy could have had the type of first love relationship with Angel she had at age 16 and 17 with anyone again, due to the changes in her life. (Certainly not with Angel if he returned to Sunnydale at that point.) And in season 6, she simply isn't in a state to have a good functional romantic relationship with anyone. (Note the time frame.) If the problem on Buffy's side is her major self-loathing, one of the problems on Spike's side is that he wasn't kidding in In the Woods and After Life - he's willing to take any Buffy, no matter how damaged, and any form of access to her above no Buffy at all. Which isn't good for either of them.

What's interesting is that Buffy fights the demon and confronts Willow while Spike looks out for Dawn and also apparently takes her to the doctor. (I really wish there was more interaction between Spike and Dawn in season 6.)

You and everyone else. Here's a Wrecked story which offers a bit of that and other interesting stuff, by honorh:

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/483699/1/

Buffy and Willow parallels and the self hatred at the core of their problems: true. There is a strong resonance to their scenes here in a scene they have in the last but one episode of the season. More to that then.

[spikeylover.livejournal.com]

From what I understand, fans were starting to ship Spike/Dawn, so they pulled them apart.. (Bless James, it's a wonder he was allowed to do anymore scenes with Mattresses and doors after GONE and DEAD THINGS)

Also, I think the problem with this episode was the over-use of the LSD magic trip, but as Thalia said, the final scenes were well acted and the Spuffy scenes were interesting.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Bless James, it's a wonder he was allowed to do anymore scenes with Mattresses and doors after GONE and DEAD THINGS

Don't forget chains.*g* In fact, they completely went to the other extreme with the Spike/chains OTP.

Re: Dawn - did we ever hear someone say in an interview? (I know the rumour in the variation that it was the age difference between JM and MT, much like scenes between Buffy and Giles during her high school years had strict limits as to the touching occasions.) Because what I did hear from one of the writers (Fury, I think) in an interview at the Succubus Club was that they would have liked more Spike and Dawn scenes in S 6 but simply didn't find room for them in the episodes.

Regardless the reasons, though, it's a pity we only have two more important scenes between Spike and Dawn during the entire rest of the show.

[spikeylover.livejournal.com]

I think Marti said it on one of the commentaries, in season six???

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

From what I understand, fans were starting to ship Spike/Dawn, so they pulled them apart.. (Bless James, it's a wonder he was allowed to do anymore scenes with Mattresses and doors after GONE and DEAD THINGS)

If they were worried about that James should only have had solo scenes from now on - and never stood to close to any sort of furniture. *g* I mean he has chemistry with *everyone*. If you want to, you can ship him with all of the Scoobies. And Joyce. And Dawn. And Andrew. And basically every character on the show...

[selenak.livejournal.com]

The writers riffed on that by letting Andrew postulate UST between Spike and the one person nobody did 'ship him with in season 7.*veg* (No, really, I kid you not, Andrew says it out loud: "Have you seen Spike and Person? Sexual tension you could cut with a knife!")

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

LOL! I'm looking forward to this.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

It's in one of my favourite episodes, Storyteller, which is by Jane Espenson, who always, as andrastewhite puts it, gives good geek.

[spikeylover.livejournal.com]

Exactly. I wonder if that wasn't because it lead to comparisons to Buffy/ANgel, and they didn't want to go there?

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

I didn't mind the magic = crack analogy that much, I just thought it was brought up to suddenly and then overused. After all, I know from Star Wars that you can addicted to power. Anakin and Willow should form a support group, they could also discuss how it makes them feel to change eye colour occasionally. *g*

he's willing to take any Buffy, no matter how damaged, and any form of access to her above no Buffy at all. Which isn't good for either of them.

Yes, absolutely. Being a "willing slave" to quote OMWF doesn't really speak for his self-esteem; it's also not what Buffy needs.

Thanks for the excellent recs:
I really liked that your story connects Wrecked extremely well to other episodes. My favorite bit was probably Buffy panicking about the loss of her shoes as it bring memories back of her return from the dead.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Anakin and Willow should form a support group, they could also discuss how it makes them feel to change eye colour occasionally. *g*

Very true. They'd have other things to bond other as well, such as (threatened or actual) loss of loved one as an inducement to, ahem, not healthy behaviour. Also... well, you'll see. *veg*

Being a "willing slave" to quote OMWF doesn't really speak for his self-esteem; it's also not what Buffy needs.

Nope. If Giles (going away and essentially washing his hands) is one extreme, Spike is the other. As for what Spike needs, it's to find a definition other than either what Buffy wants or what he thinks she wants. His own compass, as it were. Of course, Spike has pretty much defined himself via the relationship with the woman in his life from birth onwards (first Mother, then Dru, then drifting interlude, then Buffy), so that is a major unlife-changing thing which naturally doesn't occur to him on his own...

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

I even see Spike's relationship with Angel(us) as similar. From what I've seen so far he enjoys riling up Angel, to make him lose control. Part of Spike's problem seems to be: Any attention is better than no attention.

[willowgreen.livejournal.com]

Part of Spike's problem seems to be: Any attention is better than no attention.

Hey! Just like my six-year-old!

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

*Someone told me that at one point Buffy says to Angel and Spike that they act like 12-year-olds around one another. Seems she was generous in her judgment. *g*

[spikeylover.livejournal.com]

I liked Willow/Rack's chemistry in this episode but I got tired of the heavy breathing LSD trip.

Still, I don't think this is as bad an episode as many say it is.

Spike suffered severe Foot in mouth disease here, and as you said, this hits on Buffy's insecurities and she lashes back with Angel, no less. (which is where Spike's insecurities lie--- they really know how to push each other's buttons.

You also make a good point, since Spike is weaker, if he had been the female and she was the male, this would have been far more disturbing to watch. In episodes like GONE, it's actually played for laughs at times. IMO, Watching Spuffy's relationship in season six is..um... puzzling. (For lack of a better word) You really don't know how you are suppose to take it or feel.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

You also make a good point, since Spike is weaker, if he had been the female and she was the male, this would have been far more disturbing to watch.

Firstly, he's not weaker. (I think Slayers and vampires have about equal abilities. Yes, I know Buffy can lift the Troll hammer and Spike can only with difficulties, but he can do the vertical jump thing, which she can't, and as demonstrated in FFL has his weapon always on the ready whereas she has to reach for hers, so sans chip inhibition, which doesn't exist any more at this point, he is a match for her.) Secondly, we actually know how the fans reacted to a Jossverse relationship where the man was one of the heroes who was going trough isolation, depression and a real venting of his dark side, and the woman one of the villains who came to care for this man more deeply than he did for her. This man said things to the woman that were equally as cruel as anything Buffy ever said to Spike. ("I didn't even think about you when you were there", "don't embarass yourself" or "keep the glasses on" come to mind.) As far as I recall, this made this male character the most popular of his show; everyone sighed about his hotness and wanted to serve him chicken soup.

And to play the gender reversal game with Spuffy again: how about season 5, which somehow always gets left out when people do this? How would the fans have reacted to a female former villain who stalked the male hero, collected his underwear, talked to a mannequin, made her current boyfriend dress up in the male hero's cloths, chained the hero up and told him if he'd love her she'd kill her former lover for him? Do you think such a female character would have been viewed as romantic and hot, that people would have sympathized with her and hoped she would win the love of the hero? No. She'd have been compared to Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction, and would have been called spineless and pathetic at best and crazy and disgusting at worst.

Which, btw, is not to say that I don't like or sympathize with Spike in s5. When Buffy tells him "it wouldn't be you, Spike, it will never be you - you're beneath me" in FFL, I want to give him a hug (never mind that he has just told her he's death so she has to have sex with him). But yes, viewers react with double standards to people of different gender. Just in more than one way.

[spikeylover.livejournal.com]

Actually, that female hero you describe (obsessing, tying you up, etc) sounds like Darla. I think I'd like her. lol.

I know what you are saying, and that's a good argument about Spike not being weaker. I had never thought of it like that after the Doc/Glory/Troll thing in season five, when Spike couldn't fight either, and while Buffy had a bit of trouble with Glory and the Troll, she handled Doc with ease. Of course, Buffy can't fall from the tower and live--and Spike can.

I have always defended Buffy when I feel Spike fans get to harsh, and don't really think I have a double standard, I'm just saying what I thought I was watching and I don't think I was alone there. It's really just a matter of taste as to who you love as a character. As for the hot character on the other show, I felt sorry for her. Bless her.

Later, I was totally rooting for another character to be with the one he wanted, and Thalia is wondering WTF we are talking about. lol.

[spikeylover.livejournal.com]

And I wanted to add that I shipped the other that you spoke of, as bad and naughty as it was.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Oh, the other was also a hot relationship (and is one of my favourite things of season 4) with I think a similar problem - to wit, the hero-in-isolation-and-depression entered it as a part of self abasment/punishment/distraction from pain. So even if there hadn't been... other stuff... happening, I don't think it would have worked out.

I did want Female Person to have a drink with Spike and talk relationship problems, btw.*g*

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

I don't think Spike is weaker, but right now he's at a disadvantage. He's told Buffy that he loves her and would do everything for her so that makes him emotionally rather vulnerable.
Of course, it's a tricky thing with Spike: I always feels that he wears his emotions like a banner, he's proud of them. Up to a point he even seems to relish his suffering for love.

Of course, Buffy can't fall from the tower and live--and Spike can.
Very interesting observation. Have to think about this some more; this might well be a symbol for them as characters - or I'm just going into over-interpretation mode. *g*

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

Secondly, we actually know how the fans reacted to a Jossverse relationship where the man was one of the heroes who was going trough isolation, depression and a real venting of his dark side, and the woman one of the villains who came to care for this man more deeply than he did for her. This man said things to the woman that were equally as cruel as anything Buffy ever said to Spike. ("I didn't even think about you when you were there", "don't embarass yourself" or "keep the glasses on" come to mind.) As far as I recall, this made this male character the most popular of his show; everyone sighed about his hotness and wanted to serve him chicken soup.

Interesting. After all, we have already seen a similar relationship with Angel and Darla where he first seeks her out, then pushes her back, then has sex with her and then completely renounces her. Not his proudest moment.

Female villain in season 4: Of course, I'm curious now and can't help speculatingly wildly. My money is on Lilah. It would be fascinating to see her fall in love.

I'm wondering where these double standards come from.
To me it always seem as if most fans active on the net are women - an exception would probably be the Star Wars fandom. So this suggests that women are more sympathetic to (evil) men and have hardly any sympathy for women who mistreat men *or* who are mistreated. Is this because many women tend to see other women as rivals wheras the man is the price?
There is also the tendency in m/m slash fanfiction to put down any woman who might be interested in one of the men - a problem that no doubt has the same roots.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

After all, we have already seen a similar relationship with Angel and Darla where he first seeks her out, then pushes her back, then has sex with her and then completely renounces her. Not his proudest moment.

No. There are strong parallels between those two relationships, and they're a great twist on the film noir cliché. The noir cliché being "hero falls for villainess who makes him do bad things", and in the case of both relationships, it actually doesn't go that route at all because it's more that the hommes are fatals to the femmes.*g*

Female villain in season 4: Of course, I'm curious now and can't help speculatingly wildly. My money is on Lilah. It would be fascinating to see her fall in love.

I'm not saying anything. Not me. No.

To me it always seem as if most fans active on the net are women - an exception would probably be the Star Wars fandom. So this suggests that women are more sympathetic to (evil) men and have hardly any sympathy for women who mistreat men *or* who are mistreated. Is this because many women tend to see other women as rivals wheras the man is the price?

I think the motivation differs. In some cases, it might be simply that more people identify with the openly emotional party who for a good long while loves unrequitedly than with the stoic, withdrawn and self-loathing party.... but that wouldn't explain the different sympathy situation when the gender is reversed. So it might also come down to the lust object question. (I.e. woe to the woman who is not-nice to same; only the woman who actually is the object of his affection is worse off, and they're the same...)

karabair told me a while ago about having read someone suggesting a Buffy/Mal (Reynolds, from Firefly) pairing, and the objection was that Buffy would be too much of a danger to Mal's tender emotions. Err. Aside from the different times and worlds they live in, where does anyone get the idea of Vulnerable!Mal? My own reason for not pairing them, if, you know, they lived in the same world, would be that they're too similar - Mal actually is a lot like later season Buffy, with a few more added years and as a man. But he is a man and a lust object for much of the fandom, and hence, stuff like him being a jerk occasionally and acting out his war trauma in anything but nice ways makes him layered.

[liliaeth]

Can I speak up as one of the people who lost all interest in said male character once he started becoming dark in s3 of the other show. Before he was still human, flawed, but likeable, from s3 on he became an inscrutable boring piece of scenery that only pulled the writer's attention away from much more interesting chars such as Gunn.

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

Definitely have to watch more to figure out who you are discussing here. Have my suspicions, of course, and will find out soon enough.

P.S. Authorial Intention

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Forgot to add: as far as authorial intentions are concerned, I think we were supposed to see Buffy/Spike from Wrecked to As You Were as mutually abusive. Emphasis on "mutual". So when Buffy in early S7 says to X. that she behaved like a monster towards Spike in S6, she's a) sincere, and b) also expressing the writers pov (all the more so because the writer of that particular conversation was Joss. However, this doesn't mean we were supposed to think all the problems of Spuffy in s6 came from Buffy, or that they would have been fine and dandy if only Buffy had been nice to Spike and declared her love for him. They both had to change, as did the basis for their relationship, in order for it to become good for both of them.

So when Buffy breaks it off in As You Were which Thalia has already seen, we're meant to see that as the right thing, as well as the point where she starts to change. You know where and when and why Spike does.

Now whether or not that intention is achieved is of course up to the audience, as always.

Re: P.S. Authorial Intention

[spikeylover.livejournal.com]

I totally understand what I was suppose to see---NOW. Many of weren't on the internet, didn't know that the writers were telling us otherwise (See Fury) and when watching, we saw a kinky S&M relationship (which I don't think is so horrible, -- I guess I'm suppose too) and Buffy bopping Spike in the head at the end, because she doesn't want to connect to him.

Spike telling Buffy she came back wrong? I recall that I was wondering the same thing. Saying she belonged in the dark with him--I can see that this wouldn't be good for Buffy, but then I was rooting for SPike to realize this and redeem himself without soul, which seemed to be the path we were taking in season five.

Does Clem have a soul? Does Lorne?

I know James blames himself for giving Spike too much soul in a soul-less vampire and thus the audience not "getting it" and putting more blame on Buffy, but I disagree with him. Lots of things were taken out of the script that should have been left in there. Also, a bit of tweaking and Buffy would have come out more sympathetic. (and I've seen the dailies, I know they could have chosen softer scenes for Buffy, and ruder ones for Spike--they just...DIDNT.) So, I don't put blame on audience or James for not getting this, I put it on the writers and editors.

I've made several videos about the darkness of Spuffy's relationship, by the way: they are spoilery so Thalia, you can't watch it till after CHOSEN. Probably the most awarded vid is CONTROL:

http://www.spikeylover.com/Videos/control.wmv

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

I reread what I wrote and realise that it's open to misinterpretation.

I don't think that Buffy is the evil abuser who bears all the blame and that Spike is the innocent victim. I do believe, however,that the writers played with gender stereotypes by showing us a woman who actually hits her lover. Maybe I lived a life protected from too much TV, but I don't remember ever seeing a film or TV show where the woman takes Buffy's role, i.e. hits her partner when she feels hurt or aggressive.

Now obviously what Buffy is doing is wrong. Not only because she hurts Spike by behaving in such a way, but because she hurts herself. After all, she acts in a way she hates and it makes her ultimately hate herself. (This is in fact, a cycle: She hates herself, therefore lashes out which then makes her hate herself even more.)

Despite this, I feel a lot of sympathy for Buffy. She has suffered a lot over the last seasons, her friends have done her no favour by resurrecting her, her mentor has deserted her. The only one she appears to have left is Spike. I think in Wrecked she starts to revive some of her other ties, e.g. to Willow and Dawn, then lapses back during Gone, recovers again, lapses back, and so forth. Since Buffy has tremendous inner strength I have faith that she will pull through.

The odd thing is, because Spike was the first one to admit to being in love, that was all that seemed to be needed to keep the reader sympathies lying with him and not so much with Buffy.

Yes, that's a valid criticism. I guess it's easy to feel sympathy with someone who is in love without his love being returned. Probably every one has been there at one point so nearly everyone will easily connect to a character suffering from unrequited love.

the one factor that does make Buffy more culpable than Spike for me, is that she knew full well that Spike's an unrepentant soulless ex-serial killer and yet she got involved with him anyway.

If she had started a relationship with him during season 4 or season 5, I would agree with you. But during season 6, Buffy has lost her connection to life, she's adrift. It's not coincidence that she really starts her relationship with Spike after Giles has left. He was the one person who was her anchor after being resurrected.

[spikeylover.livejournal.com]

One of Buffy's character flaws is that she feels a need to hit people when things get uncomfortable and she wants them to shut up. I'm thinking about Angel in Sanctuary (I don't know my ATS titles as well as my BTVS) Dawn in FOREVER (when she speaks about how she isn't there for her when her mother dies) and I can also think of Faith on some occasions. Spike is the mouthiest of the mouths and a truth teller to boot, and so she needs to shut him up quite often. The thing with Spike is that he hits back with sharp biting wit and fists. No, this isn't a healthy relationship.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Though the Dawn slap comes after Dawn said Buffy is treating this like a household chore, "cleaning up after Mom's mess", which I don't think is on a par with the other occasions you mention because it's really unfair. (Not that I blame Dawn - they're both devastated by Joyce's death.)

BTW, trying to think of the first time Buffy does this to someone, I come up with Faith in Consequences saying that Angel turning evil got Buffy hot. It's a neatly choreographed scene because Buffy and Faith are walking with a literal line drawn between them - they're in the harbor - and then when Faith says this Buffy punches her and crosses the line. Of course, season 3 is all about Buffy dealing with her shadow self, her own capacity for violence and crossing the line for the first time.

[spikeylover.livejournal.com]

In this scenario, Spike really did nothing wrong here that I could see. He is just wanting to talk about their relationship after she kissed him twice. Although there was always a bit of verbal sparring, This is the first time either of them were harsh with each other since she returned from the dead, and Spike backslides from all the progress he had made. Also, he's not suppose to be able to hit back without horrible pain, (and people forget that when they defend Xander, Riley, and everyone who took out their frustrations on him since season four, when he's got that chip in his head.)

SPIKE: A man can change.
BUFFY: You're not a man. You're a thing.
SPIKE: Stop walking away.
BUFFY: Don't touch me!

(she punches him, he punches her back, realizes there's no pain from the chip, but fakes it)

(Buffy sends him to the ground)

BUFFY: You're a thing. An evil, disgusting, thing.

He doesn't feel pain, and knocks her back, but in that case I feel like she was more hurtful for no reason than Dawn was in FOREVER, who had just lost her mother.

That's why I include Dawn in that scenario of Buffy lashing out physically when things get a bit to uncomfortable to deal with.

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

He doesn't feel pain, and knocks her back, but in that case I feel like she was more hurtful for no reason than Dawn was in FOREVER, who had just lost her mother.

That's why I include Dawn in that scenario of Buffy lashing out physically when things get a bit to uncomfortable to deal with.

Yes, that makes a lot of sense.

I'm a bit like Buffy in that regard. When I was younger, I had a very hot temper.
When confronted with things that I feared might be true, I sometimes got destructive. (I never destroyed other people's things though.) I also lashed out twice. When I punched someone because I was literally seeing red, I was so disgusted with myself afterwards I really worked on myself. I've never lost my temper like that again.
One thing I totally understand is the need to leave in these instances: Even in the past, I always tried to leave before I got to angry. Things got out of hand when people tried to hold me back to give me more of their opinion.

P.S. Found the quote!

[selenak.livejournal.com]

The dialogue leading up to Buffy punching Faith, I mean. And when I say this is the first time Buffy punches someone, I mean of course strictly to shut them up or to retaliate for a verbal insult, not a punch like the one she gives Giles in Passion when she asks him whether he's trying to get himself killed. Okay, here it is. Written by Marti Noxon, btw, and of course certain parallels are obvious:


FAITH: I've seen it, B. You've got the lust. And I'm not just talking about screwing vampires.

BUFFY: Don't you *dare* bring him into this.

FAITH: It was good, wasn't it? The sex? The danger? Bet a part of you even dug him when he went psycho.

BUFFY: No!

FAITH: See, you need me to toe the line because you're afraid you'll go over it, aren't you, B? You can't handle watching me living my own way, having a blast, because it tempts you! You know it could be you!

(Buffy punches her)

FAITH: There's my girl.

BUFFY: No. I'm not gonna do this.

FAITH: Why not? It feels good. Blood rising.

(Buffy shoves Faith out of the way, gets hit herself, by a pallet of crates)

Re: P.S. Found the quote!

[spikeylover.livejournal.com]

Sex and death and love and pain---it's all the same thing to vampires. ;) Must be quite the rush.

Re: P.S. Found the quote!

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

I just happily realised how much fun it will be to rewatch Buffy once I arrived at the end of season 7. Quite impressive that the writers really gave the characters continuous character flaws that are then explored in various situations. The character flaws of Buffy, Willow and Xander are apparent from quite early on, but the results of these flaws become more and more dramatic. Luckily, all these characters also have their strenghts.

Re: P.S. Found the quote!

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Yes, they do, and yes, they have (flaws and strengths, also, real flaws, not just cute Mary Sue flaws, and real strengths).

Here's a great new essay on the DT alley scene in comparison to the Buffy and Faith storyline from season 3, and why the awareness of Faith's fate is so important when watching DT:

http://elisi.livejournal.com/120766.html