Angel - Season 2 impressions (episode 10)

[thalia_seawood]

Reunion

For a summary click here.


- I feel incredibly sorry for Angel. He just had to watch Darla being transformed into a vampire in front of his eyes, right after Darla finally had accepted her life as a human and in Angel's eyes had a chance at redemption by doing so. Like selenak, I believe that the motel room was bugged and that Lindsey and his team burst in on purpose after Darla and Angel had found some peace. Wolfram & Hart tries to hurt Angel in any way possible and using Darla against him is one of their means.

- Angel decides to stake Darla before she can rise again as a vampire and pays Lindsey a visit to find out where she is.
It's noteworthy that he refuses to take any of his friends along; I think he wants to be alone right now, as he's so very angry and upset he can't cope with anyone's presence or moral concerns.

- When Angel arrives at Lindsey's place, he has to see that Lindsey already moved out. He finds out, however, that Lindsey was in contact with Drusilla which means he planned Darla's transformation into a vampire some time ago:

Woman: "This is about the - cousin, isn't it?"
Angel turns back: "Cousin?"
Woman: "That sweet, but very odd English girl who was visiting him?"
Angel: "Yeah. Yes, it is."
Woman: "I knew that pregnancy was in trouble the moment she told me about it. Thin as a rail. Couldn't be healthy - for the baby."
Angel: "She said she was having a baby?"
Woman: "She was very excited about getting the nursery ready for the birth. I offered to show her some two-bedroom..."
Angel (to himself): "Of course. Dru would want the ritual."
Woman: "...but she wasn't interested. I-I think she wanted something on the west side anyway. She insisted that her daughter would be born near the stars."

- Drusilla is brilliant in this episode. Her part is very well written and Juliet Landau gives a great performance.

Dru is a weird mixture of sweet and touching, quite mad and very creepy. Unlike other vampires, I don't think she could really be held accountable for what she does. When she was turned into a vampire, she had already lost her mind. Now that she is a vampire, she is still unconnected from reality. She just follows her instincts and has no more sense of right and wrong.

Angelus or Darla are different in that regard: They know what they do is evil and that's exactly the reason they are doing it. This becomes clear for example when they start preying on Drusilla because they view her as a saint and want to make her suffer because of this.

Dru: "Oh, yeah. (She moves one hand in a circular motion above Darla's body) Grandmother is very pleased with it. - I can tell. - Aren't you, Grandmother? (Leans down over Darla) My daughter."
Lindsey: "Can she hear you?"
Dru turns to him: "She's *dead.*"
[...]
Holland: "Drusilla, you are positively glowing."
Dru: "I'm going to be a mummy."

- Dru: "Run and catch, run and catch, the lamb is caught in the blackberry patch."

This is at least the second time that we hear Drusilla sing this nursery rhyme and this time around I noticed how completely fitting this is as a "theme song" for her. After all, Angel and Darla did play "run and catch" with her and with her orginal innocence she can be compared to the lamb. After she is turned into a vampire, Drusilla becomes the hunter herself who enjoys catching tasty little lambs. It's not a coincidence, we hear her sing this for the first time when she's threatens a little boy at the playground.

- Angel can't prevent Darla from rising as a vampire. He hesitates, because he just can't stake her like that, and Dru uses the moment to interfere.
Interesting that Darla attacks both Angel and Drusilla after she rises. She has a grudge against them both:
Angel for staking her in the past and trying to do so again. And apparently also because he failed to protect her from being turned into a vampire.
She's also angry at Drusilla, because she ultimately was turned by Dru against her will.

Now immediately after awakening as a vampire, Darla's still mostly acting on instinct. I.e. I get the impression she doesn't really think a lot about why she's angry at Angel or Dru, she just goes along with her feelings of resentment. But only a little while later she clearly remembers what has happened. Also over the next couple of episodes we see that Darla remembers most of her existence. She's definitely not a disjointed personality.

This made it clear to me how hard Angel tries to forget about his past most of the time. He tries to divide himself into different personalities: Liam, Angelus and Angel. Neither his human self nor his demon self are something he's proud of.
Am not an expert in psychology - and certainly not in vampire psychology, but I've been wondering if Angel wouldn't be more content if he reconciled with the other parts of his personality. In my opinion, Angelus when he rises again in Sunnydale is even more vicious than before, because he has been suppressed for so long.

- Darla and Drusilla: I love all their interactions, but this scene is my favorite.
Dru: "Don't be angry."
Darla slams her up against the side of the car.
Darla: "Why?"
Dru: "For you. All for you. I thought it was what you wanted - to be saved."
Darla looks at Dru (a guy in red pickup truck keeps honking his horn to get them to move out of the road) and slowly takes a step back, letting her hands drop from Dru's shoulders.
Dru crying: "All alone. All alone in the dirt. - We've lost our way and the little worm won't dance if he's told to. (Starts to sob) No. No."
Darla pushes Dru's hair out of her face, then slowly takes her in her arms to comfort her, softly stroking her hair and letting Dru cry.
The guy gets out of the pickup.
Guy: "You two wanna move it out of the street? (Dru and Darla turn to look at him, pulling slightly apart) Yeah, that's right, sweetheart. Why don't you and your girlfriend take the make-out session on home. (Darla walks up to him) The rest of us have lives."
Darla looks him up and down, shakes her head and vamps.
Darla: "Not for long."
She grabs him and feeds, drops him to the ground and turns back to Dru with a smile, back in human face.
Dru: "You're all new again."
Darla: "Let's go shopping, hmm?"
She takes a hold of Dru's hand and the two of them walk off down the road, giggling.

They have such a complex relationship: Grandmother-granddaughter, mother-daughther, but they also feel like sisters and at the same time like old lovers. In a way, their relationship mirrors the one between Angel and Spike.


- Dru puts it a hat on and we hear a phone ringing. Dru: "Oh. I'm ringing. - Do you hear it? (Starts to dance in place) I'm ringing - all - over! (Darla watches her for a moment then reaches down into the front of Dru's dress and pulls out a cell phone.) Oh, yeah. I forgot about that."

This comment of Dru's when she forgets it's her mobile that's ringing made me smile in this overall very dark episode.

- So Kate is helping Angel again. While they're not back to being best of friends, it's a start.

- When Angel and his team rescue the guy from Cordelia's vision, he goes into full "I don't give a shit" mode. Oddly enough, I like Angel better exactly because he can be such a jerk at times. If he was always just bland, patient and understanding, I couldn't connect to him.

- Dru and Darla crashing the lawyers party... Very fitting. And I guess I should feel sorry for the Wolfram & Hart lawyers, but I don't. They played a lot of risky games and in order to hurt Angel used Darla and Drusilla as their puppets. I think if you work in such high risk operations, you have to be aware that at times you will have to pay a high price. I did feel sorry for Holland's wife, though.

- Lindsey's reaction to Darla and Dru crashing the party:
I get the impression, that he's turned on by it. He thinks he's in love with Darla, but I believe he's attracted to her power. (When she's still human, he's fascinated that she used to be this powerful creature who's over 400 years old.) By admiring her, he participates in her power.

- Lilah on the other hand is afraid for her life. She keeps her composure quite well, when Drusilla is toying with her. (Perhaps that's the reason why she's left alive.)

Dru running her hand along Lilah's jaw: "You have beautiful skin."
Lilah: "I moisturize."
Dru bends down so her face is level with Lilah's: "That was very thoughtful of you."

- How comes Angel can enter Holland's house without invitation? Does Holland's wife ask him inside before she dies? Or is she the owner of the house and already dead? Details, I know, but inquisitive minds want to know.

- Angel refusing to help the Wolfram & Hart lawyers.
It's morally wrong, it's shocking - but I don't know what I would have done in his position.
Anyway, I love this scene because it poses some tough questions. What if Angel had let the W&H lawyers go and they had afterwards committed more crimes? Would he have been responsible for those in a way? Or should he have saved them, because it would have been the right thing after all? Also some of the W&H lawyer might have reconsidered working for W&H after being rescued by Angel...

- Angel firing his employees is a shock:
Wesley: "Listen to her! Right now the three of us are all that's standing between you and real darkness."
Gunn: "Best believe that, man."
Angel quietly after a beat: "I do. - You're all fired."
Angel gets up and walks away while the other three sit there like frozen statues.

Right now, he doesn't want to listen to any talk about right or wrong. He wants to slide down into darkness and he maybe also wants to protect them from himself. What's so painful about this scene is that he treat his friends, his human family as if they are just his employees. I can totally understand that Cordelia, Wesley and Gunn are in shock afterwards and deeply hurt by this.

Comments

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Reunion was for the longest time my favourite AtS episode, hands down. It's certainly one of the darkest.

Dru is a weird mixture of sweet and touching, quite mad and very creepy. Unlike other vampires, I don't think she could really be held accountable for what she does. When she was turned into a vampire, she had already lost her mind. Now that she is a vampire, she is still unconnected from reality. She just follows her instincts and has no more sense of right and wrong.
Angelus or Darla are different in that regard: They know what they do is evil and that's exactly the reason they are doing it.

Yes, that's it exactly.

Re: Darla operating mostly on instinct immediately after her rising - true. The reflection basically sets in during her argument with Drusilla. The fact that Dru disarms her with the "for you" is quite interesting, too.

Darla and Drusilla in general: love them together, with they would get written more about, though I must confess I only wrote one scene with the two of them myself, set in a story about Darla and someone else. Anyway, one of these days I must do something about the plot bunny regarding Darla and Drusilla in the days, err, nights after Angelus has turned her. There is so much fanfic about Angel and Spike, and Spike and Dru, and so little about Darla and Dru when these season 2 episodes (and a hilarious scene in a season 5 flashback) make it clear there is very fertile ground for fanfic.

Oddly enough, I like Angel better exactly because he can be such a jerk at times. If he was always just bland, patient and understanding, I couldn't connect to him.

That's one of the reasons why I liked but didn't love Angel over at BTVS but love him on his own show (though I disconnected at a late season 2 point and only reconnected in late season 3, but then with a vengeance).

Angel entering Holland's house: I think that's why they show us Catherine still alive (barely and only just) when he shows up, so we'd assume she said "enter" or "come in and help me" or something like that.

Firing his employees: that is the second shock of the episode. And the extreme closeness demonstrated by the end of season 1 and the start of season 2 makes it even worse.

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

There is so much fanfic about Angel and Spike, and Spike and Dru, and so little about Darla and Dru when these season 2 episodes (and a hilarious scene in a season 5 flashback) make it clear there is very fertile ground for fanfic.

After reading fanfiction in various fandoms for nearly 10 years, I've seen that overall male pairings get more attention than female pairings. I think there are several reasons for it: Usually there are more male characters on a movie or TV show and in the past, the male characters were more complex. (Much more fun to write about Q and Picard than about Crusher and Troi though Crusher and Troi gained some dimension in the last two seasons.) And then most fanfiction writers are female and so rather concentrate on the interactions between two guys.

Nevertheless, Darla and Drusilla are such a fascinating pairing, I'll be looking for stories about them.

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

this is probably my favorite episode of the series, if I were to rank such things -- I love the Darla/Dru scenes, and my reaction the first time was to wish Spike were unchipped and could be in on the fun (I know it's wrong, but that's what I thought).

I'm afraid the firing scene destroyed any affection I had developed for Angel (moreso than his actions with the lawyers, oddly), and I'm not sure he ever entirely gained it back (and the next few eps only make it worse). I understand why he does everything he does, and it's a bold choice by the writers -- it just makes me like him a lot less. Now, I'm not sure what I would have had him to, either morally or in terms of narrative -- my reaction just sort of works at a juvenile "Wah, he hurt Wes & Cordy's feelings!" level. Except for a few brief intervals in late S2 and S3, this is pretty much the end of the "Angel gang" as we've previously known it -- which is probably why I find myself revisiting eps from season 2 more than any other.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I'm afraid the firing scene destroyed any affection I had developed for Angel (moreso than his actions with the lawyers, oddly), and I'm not sure he ever entirely gained it back (and the next few eps only make it worse).

Behold the weirdness that is me. I had no problems with loving him while he was doing this (and hurting Cordy and Wes' feelings). And btw, failing Kate who had just made a major effort by letting him go so he could stop Darla and Dru and save people. No, Angel in his noir (or, as Lorne deems it, beige) phase was still loved by me. What made me lose affection until late season 3 and A New World which was when I fell for Angel the character again via his relationship with you-know-who was his behaviour after the reconciliation! (Will expand on this once Thalia gets there.) When he's being anything but hurtful to W, C and G. Though in retrospect I might have projected some of my Pylea and season 3 issues with the writers on poor old Angel.

(Sidenote: don't know whether you've ever read my first AtS story, Her Fault, about Cordelia and Darla. This was written before season 3 and probably shows something else, i.e. why I sympathized with Angel through his firing of W & C. It's in my FFN account.)

I think what it comes down to, though, is that I'm not partisan in that way. I mean, over at Babylon 5 I love Londo and G'Kar who do some terrible things to each other in season 2 and 3 (plus Londo does terrible things, full stop - you think Angel has something to answer for?). Loving X while X is hurting Y who I also love never has been a problem.

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

I think what it comes down to, though, is that I'm not partisan in that way.

I'm really usually not; I mean, I love Buffy & Faith, I love Spike & Riley, I love Wes & *cough cough* from season 4. It's just poor Angel and this one damn thing (well, several damn things, but this is what started it). And I actually like the Pylea arc, even though some of it kind of drags, just because everybody's acting like they like each other --

OK, maybe what I'm really saying is that I can take it when my pets collide, but when my pets collide with my nonpets (ie, Wes/Cordy v. Angel, or when, say, when Spike's at odds with Xander or Giles -- both of whom I like but don't adore) my biases really start to show -- probably not an uncommon thing, though I do try to admit when I'm doing it.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Hm, now you make me wonder what I do when my pets collide with my non-pets. I mean, I did love Cordy and Wesley in season 2, and I recall loving them as much as Angel back then, so that wasn't such a scenario. (Though I must say the Angel-Darla relationship was my emotional center in season 2, which naturally fed into my Pylea frustration - I really must rewatch those episodes and might have an entirely different perspective on them now.) Spike versus Xander or Giles is interesting, because it's a "neither is a pet" scenario for me. I like Spike, but I never loved him (and I think having a friend who was a Spike fan and holding her hand through the Spike Wars made me think more than once "thank God I neither love nor hate the guy), and I like but don't adore Xander or Giles, either.

So perhaps the closest thing that growly reaction I get when reading a "mean Buffy, poor Spike" post, because Buffy most certainly is a pet, but that's more a reaction to fannish reaction, not to Spike's on screen actions. I really liked the way the relationship was represented on screen in all its complexity and mutual screwed-up-ness, and thus had no problem with either Buffy's or Spike's actions.

OH! I just thought of an example of partisanship on my part in a pet versus non-pet ON SCREEN scenario - Buffy and Scoobies in season 6, after they have done the thing and don't realise they have done the thing to her, and even later after they found out... anyway, it definitely made me go bad Scoobies, poor Buffy. But I don't think I disliked them because of it.

Lastly, as said in another post: sometimes new affections for characters change old ones, too - during those three season 3 episodes which are so fundamentally important to Wesley I used to be entirely on Wesley's side during first broadcast. I had disengaged from Angel as described plus Fred and Gunn never were pets, so it was WEEEESLEY! emotionally for me all the way. Rewatching, with love for Angel in full force, and love for you-know-who added? Especially given that you know who became together with Darla an all time favourite? I still felt immensely sorry for Wes but much more so for Angel and you know who, was, if it came to it, emotionally on their side, and had "Wesley, you idiot!" mixed up in "poor Wesley".

No Wesley dislike resulting from this, I hasten to reassure you.*g*

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

poor Thalia thinks we're talking in code, which i guess we kind of are.

the funny thing about "that thing" in S3, is that my sympathies don't at all line up with who I think is right or the victim. and as for "wesley, you idiot!" I can yell it with the best of them -- *g*

I might have told you, this almost got me in trouble a few times, because I used to have a guy named Wes as a roommate, and a few times, I was abusing Mr. Wyndam-Pryce on tv (there are a handful of s4 scenes that earn a big "oh, fuck you, Wes!" from me) and got a "what the hell did *I* do?"

As for the Spike wars, I'm just glad I *missed* them (as I didn't get into the actual wank-and-kerfuffle side of fandom, nor did I read any fic, until Buffy canon was closed --)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

*g* Your poor roommate.

Spike Wars: Lucky you. Lucky, lucky you. I tried to stay away, and stayed away enough so my affection (sympathy, not love, as mentioned earlier) for the character didn't get killed which I'm sure would have happened if I hadn't at one point stopped reading posts and entire ljs, but holding kathyh's virtual hand meant having to reassure her every five minutes right until late season 7 that the writers weren't going to pull a Dukat with Spike (obscure DS9 reference for rendering a previously ambiguous character one dimensional, if you haven't watched enough DS9), which was what the Spike partisans were afraid of. On the other side of the fence there was the wailing on how Spike had ruined the show (BTVS) /was going to ruin the show (AtS) - like I said, lucky you for having missed it. I tried to cope via satire (i.e. my Spike Wars guide).

Wait! Found the perfect code way to explain something: the way Spike gets written on tm? That's the way those posts seemed to see him before I stopped reading...

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

*g* Your poor roommate.

well, he used to watch motorcycle races all the time and swear at them so it was almost even (though admittedly none of the racers ever had my name).

also, thanks to fandom, I was absolutely the only person who ever called this guy "Wesley." I mean, reading his vows at his wedding, he was "Wes," but in my brain the names are interchangeable. The last guy I dated was also a "Wes" (yes, different guy) and it's probably just as well that didn't take off *g*

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

but holding kathyh's virtual hand meant having to reassure her every five minutes right until late season 7 that the writers weren't going to pull a Dukat with Spike (obscure DS9 reference for rendering a previously ambiguous character one dimensional, if you haven't watched enough DS9), which was what the Spike partisans were afraid of.

Well, Spike is one of my favorites, too. Against my will, because I had planned on not being intrigued. After all, he's everyone's favorite already. But alas, like the watcher who wrote her thesis on him I fell for his charms. :-) He's just such a nicely layered character and get the urge to start analyzing him.

If I had been in the fandom back in the day, you would have had to hold my little hand, too. :-) I'm very glad I missed the Spike wars. I found it exhausting enough to defend Anakin Skywalker to those fans who think he was a bad person all along or to defend the Star Wars prequels to everyone who hates them.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

As an Anakin and prequel fan myself, I know what you mean, and trust me, you haven't missed anything by missing the Spike Wars. Like I said, at one point I had to stop reading the meta or do anything but reassure Kathy by using storytelling logic, otherwise I would have ended up disliking Spike, not because of attacks on him but because of a (not that big, actually, but extremely vocal) section of his admirers and their attacks on other characters and writers alike.

Honestly, I'm not sure why I never fell for Spike myself, because he's an interesting and well-played character. But somehow, it didn't happen, and that allowed me to survive the wars in a more or less neutral position.

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

not because of attacks on him but because of a (not that big, actually, but extremely vocal) section of his admirers and their attacks on other characters and writers alike.

Really? That's so ... embarrassing. Spike is one of my favorites and I would have defended him, but bashing other characters and writers if something doesn't go my way?! That's absolutely not my style. So I would have been embarrassed for the militant Spike defenders as they would have cast a bad light on all Spike fans.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I know. Sometimes you think "go away, you're making my side look bad" - this happened to me in another fandom. But yes. The comments were incredibly vicious, especially about Buffy the character and Marti Noxon (writer and co-executive producer). One typical example was a comment like: I wish somebody would beat Noxious to a pulp and dump her in Buffy-bitch's empty grave.

(If you want to know more, I wrote a post on the phenomenon (and in defense of Marti Noxon) here.)

[spikeylover.livejournal.com]

Marti is an incredible writer and from where I sit coming from fans of James, it's actually the "behind the scenes" reasons that people don't like her. (Nothing about her ability to write or produce).. Also, many of the people who hate her for her producing, are people who hate the season six turn. (So it's not just fans of Spike)

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

I'll see what I make of season 6.
As I am a fan of the Star Wars prequels and the original trilogy, I'll probably enjoy it. *g*

I tend to ignore the private lifes of actors, producers, etc. I don't always, but most of the time. I appreciate them for what they do (writing, acting), even though I may not approve of what they do in their private lifes.
Of course, I prefer it if I think I also might like the actor, writer, etc. as a person, but it's not necessary.

[spikeylover.livejournal.com]

I've had to delete in my LJ, because I SO don't approve of talking of personal information, and frankly it's none of our business.

At the time there were interviews from James, Sarah and even Marti herself.. My point was that has quite a bit of WHY some don't like her, (not just Spike fans) without saying anything else.

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

Nothing much to add here apart from I totally with you on this. And: I really like you. :-)

[spikeylover.livejournal.com]

Awww, thanks, I really like you too! I find you so INSIGHTFUL for someone who is just watching the show for the first time.

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

Thanks. :-)

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

Strongly reminds me of the way some few fans talked about Rowlings when she failed to ship Harry and Hermione.

Very interesting post regarding the episode Marti wrote. She really created a lot of classics.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Yes, exactly that kind of thing. I was very strongly reminded of it when the H/H uproar happened, too. Mind you, Marti isn't perfect as a writer or producer, but overall, her contributions to the show during the six years she wrote for it have been great and indispensable, and I can't stand seeing them ignored in favour of blaming her for everything the fans didn't like about BTVS.

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

Yes, definitely not fair.
Add to this that it's also a matter of taste/personal experience what people enjoy in a book, TV-show or movie. Even the best writer cannot please everyone.

[spikeylover.livejournal.com]

I think basically when you get ships that were rooted for and loved in a way Buffy/Angel vs. Spike/Buffy were, then it's bound to happen. Also, without totally spoiling poor Thalia, we know how controversial the show gets in season six, in particular with both Buffy and Spike. (and Willow, Xander, Giles, etc.)

I have friends on my Flist and messageboards (and in real life) who have completely opposite and different opinions. I admit, I came away from BTVS not liking Willow at all. Having only watched BTVS before I saw ATS, I didn't have much love for Angel--until I saw the whole ATS series, and I ADORE the character now.

I REALLY don't think that Joss intended that or for us to hate any of these complicated characters he created, but as with my gutt reaction to Willow, you interpret it the way you do, even though it's hard sometimes for me to accept it. I'll still debate it, particularly when it concerns Spike or Buffy, who are by far my favorite in the verse..

[selenak.livejournal.com]

True, any amount of passionate caring is bound to create partisanship sooner or later, and then there is the entire 'shipping factor - I used to think battles in the Jossverse between fans were heated more than any others, and then we got the turnmoil in the Harry Potter universe last year, which... let's just say they looked awfully familiar.*g*

Incidentally, Willow is certainly the Scooby I care least for, but she has her moments, and at any rate I'd rather talk about the characters I love than waste posts on those I don't, so the whole 'ranting aspect always has bewildered me a bit...

[spikeylover.livejournal.com]

On that we totally agree. I don't see wasting my time ranting on characters I dislike.

You know, in the beginning, I would say Willow was my favorite...Joss takes these people on quite the journey, and it's really a matter of taste as to who you will end up loving at the end of this tale. I love the complicated and the epic, so Spike, Buffy and Angel are my favorites, (with Dru and Darla close behind) which makes me an enigma in fandom, I suppose.

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

I love the complicated and the epic, so Spike, Buffy and Angel are my favorites, (with Dru and Darla close behind)

*g* My favorite list is still changing occasionally, but these 5 are in the top ranks, along with Giles and Dawn. I also like Riley, but don't get the urge to read lots and lots of fanfiction about him.

As for Willow: I'm kind of indifferent to her. I see her good sides and her bad sides, but I don't connect to her.

[spikeylover.livejournal.com]

BTW, my hubby is a huge Harry Potter fan, but I don't think he would understand turmoil, as he doesn't get online about it.

I think anything that is embraced the way that book/movie and Buffy fandom is, you are going to get strong reaction.

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

I think anything that is embraced the way that book/movie and Buffy fandom is, you are going to get strong reaction.

*g* True. Nevertheless, I don't believe in getting rude over it.
I simply withdraw from the parts of fandoms were the big battles are fought with increasing viciousness. Being a fan of something should be fun, and for Buffy, Star Wars and HP fandom is so big, it should be easy for each of the various groups to find their own niche.

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

poor Thalia thinks we're talking in code, which i guess we kind of are.

Don't mind. I enjoy deciphering code. :-)

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

Spike versus Xander or Giles is interesting, because it's a "neither is a pet" scenario for me. I like Spike, but I never loved him (and I think having a friend who was a Spike fan and holding her hand through the Spike Wars made me think more than once "thank God I neither love nor hate the guy), and I like but don't adore Xander or Giles, either.

I'm really curious to see if I will take sides. I only do so in real life, when I am very fond of one person and strongly dislike the other - and then I usually keep quiet about my dislike.

My usual mode of operation is that I take both sides: I.e. take the position of person A around person B and vice versa. When I was a child this lead to a lot of trouble for me, because in the end both person A and person B were angry with me for not sticking up for them. :-)

With fictional characters I tend to do exactly the same thing. And mostly the Jossverse has given me enough room to do so. I.e. I can see Buffy's viewpoint regarding Riley or Spike, but I also sympathize with Riley or Spike. I'll see how it goes when Giles and Spike are on opposing sides, because I care for both of them, so Spike is more of a pet character for me. The one instance where I sided was when Xander went against Angel twice - despite Buffy caring for Angel so much. This wasn't based on an "Angel or Buffy are cool and Xander isn't" attitude, though. What bugged me is that Xander betrayed Buffy's trust here.

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

Behold the weirdness that is me. I had no problems with loving him while he was doing this (and hurting Cordy and Wes' feelings). And btw, failing Kate who had just made a major effort by letting him go so he could stop Darla and Dru and save people.

Yes, I'm still very fond of Angel despite the firing scene. I'll see if I disconnect from him later on.
I'm up to the point where he joins the team again and so far am just happy Cordy, Wesley, Gunn and Angel are back together again. As real life is super busy, I'll not be watching more episodes till Friday, I think. I also want to treasure their getting back together, before things fall apart once more.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I also want to treasure their getting back together, before things fall apart once more.

Oh, that won't happen for a while (middle of season 3, to be precise, and not because of something Angel does this time). Oddly enough, my emotional reconnection with Angel happened in the last third of season 3. The disconnection started in Epiphany, not because the team was back together, which made me happy, too, but because of - well, I'll copy you the relevant section from my essay so you don't have to read the spoilery sections later:

For starters, I flinched for Darla getting the morning after asshole treatment as badly as I had done for Buffy in Innocence. Darla and Angel lashing out at each other, I had no problem with. That was part of their relationship. But get dressed and get out was just a one-sided suckerpunch (and drove me to commit fanfic, twice, on Darla’s feelings afterwards). More seriously, and leaving my Darla issues aside, I was puzzled, then irritated, by the fact that what Wesley and Cordelia seemed to be upset about was Angel firing them, not the lawyer buffet, and that the writers seemed to condone this by letting Lorne, at this point still Mr. Writerly Exposition, give his statement that left Angel of the hook for getting those people killed. (Okay, the fact the exchange with Lorne was coated with an anti-Darla remark didn’t help, either.)


LORNE: What's to understand? You think you're the first guy who ever rolled over, saw what was lying next to him and went 'Guyeah!' And you're not. Believe me. - It's called a moment of clarity, my lamb. And you've just had one. Sort of appalling, ain't it? To see just exactly where you've gotten yourself?

ANGEL: I don't know how to get back.

LORNE: Well, that's just the thing. You don't. You go on to the new place. Whatever that is.

ANGEL: I don't know if I can. - I-I've done - things. - Questionable things.

LORNE: Yes, you have. But-but you didn't kill those lawyers, Angel. That was slated to happen with or without you. The Powers were just trying to work it so it'd be without you, that's all.


Grrr, arrgh. Yes, I was upset, alright, with both the show and the character, and this led to a slow process of emotional disengagement that lasted a while. Now why I had no problem with Angel committing said acts to begin with but resented him while he was being back to working with the team, buying Cordy clothes and being dorky, I’m not a hundred percent sure, but thus it was.

Lastly, links to my unspoilery Epiphany-related fanfic:

Darla in "Epiphany"

and


Darla and Angel through the ages until "Epiphany"

Let me add that my Darla-related issues were led at rest by certain season 3 events, but those stories contain no reference to those.

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

Yes, despised Lorne's comments about Darla as well as Angel's morning after treatment of Darla, but somehow still didn't disconnect from Angel. Will go into this when I write about Epiphany.

Thanks for the story recs. Read them both and love them!

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Thank you. It occured to me I left out my first Darla story, which ends with the end of The Trial. All my other Darla-related stuff has spoilers for episodes you haven't seen yet.

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

I'm afraid the firing scene destroyed any affection I had developed for Angel (moreso than his actions with the lawyers, oddly), and I'm not sure he ever entirely gained it back (and the next few eps only make it worse).

Oddly enough this scene hasn't made me dislike Angel. I can't really explain why that's so. Maybe it's because I pity them all in that scene: Darla, Dru and Angel. Also vampires can be extremely cruel to one another and still feel affection for one another. Somehow I get the impression that due to their immortality they are more forgiving of assassination attempts.

[melbournegirl.livejournal.com]

Ah yes, the lawyer massacre. That's one of the things that I always hated about Angel (the character) because as sorry as he was about all of Angelus' sins, he never took responsibility for himself. Then again, he was never, ever called on it, so I guess he never had to. Not only did he not help the lawyers, which I can understand, but he locked the doors to prevent any chance of them escaping. Then, when he has friggin' epiphany, everyone is apparently fine with the fact he directly led to the death of the evil lawyers, their dates and the cater waiters.

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

Interesting points, especially about the death of the dates and the cater waiters.

It's a common phenomenon that innocent bystanders aren't taken into account in most action movies. E.g. the heroes chase the villains, cars crash left and right - and I'm always worried about all the people in the crashed cars. :-)
I would like to see some movies/TV shows focus on the side characters for once... That would make for a nice change of perspective.