Buffy - Season 5 impressions (episode 10)

[thalia_seawood]

Into The Woods

For a summary click here.


- Buffy's mom was operated successfully. Now if I didn't know what will happen only some episodes later, I would be super happy.

- The interaction between Dawn, Xander and Anya made me smile:
Dawn: When I was younger, I used to put my chopsticks in my mouth like this, (She puts chopsticks into her mouth so they stick out like very long fangs) and then Buffy would chase me around the house yelling, (makes claw hands) 'I'm the slayer, I'm going to get you!' (Laughs)
Anya: That's disturbing. You're emotionally scarred and will end up badly.
[...]
Xander: (sarcastic) And after we teach her to gamble, maybe we can all get drunk!
Anya: (not getting it) I don't think the bar would serve her, but we could bring something in. (to Dawn) Strawberry schnapps taste just like real ice cream.
[...]
Dawn: 'Alone time' always translates into 'get Dawn out of the house so we can have loud obnoxious sex.'
Xander looks like he wants to object, but doesn't. Anya smiles, then suddenly realizes something.
Anya: (softly to Xander) Oh, does that mean we can't?

- Now that Joyce is recovering, Buffy and Riley could be happy together again - if Riley wasn't feeling guilty about what has been going on in the meantime *and* if he hadn't become addicted to being bitten by vampires.

- Spike really is infatuated by Buffy. It's already the second time that he's hanging out close to the Summers' house, watching what's going on. It makes perfect sense that he tries to find out what Riley's up to. He's always been curious. Add to this that Riley is his rival for Buffy's affection and he couldn't pass this chance by.

- Spike going to Buffy and taking her along so she sees what Riley is up to:
I totally understand why he does this, though I don't approve. The right thing to do would have been to call Riley on this and to keep the situation a secret from Buffy or allow Riley to tell her about it directly. Of course, if Spike acted like this, he would have been written totally out of character. :-) He obviously tells Buffy about Riley's secret, because he knows this will most probably terminate their relationship - and his wish is that Buffy will then accept him instead. What he's not taking into account that people are rarely fond of those who them bad news, especially when it's obvious they brought the bad news for selfish reasons.

Oh, and I like the sexual tension between Buffy and Spike *g*:
Spike: I wouldn't be here if I didn't have a good reason. As usual, I'm here to help you, and I - are you naked under there?
Buffy: (rolls her eyes) Get out.
Spike: No, I'm serious. I mean, not about the naked part, I mean... (cranes his neck trying to see under the blankets)
Buffy: Get out or I will drop you out head-first.
Spike lowers his voice, speaks intensely.
Spike: I wanna show you something.
Buffy: (realizing he is serious) What?
Spike: You need to see this.
Buffy sighs.
Spike: But we need to move if we wanna get there in time.
Buffy raises her eyebrows to indicate that she can't get dressed with Spike watching. He scoffs.
Spike: Oh, please! Like I give a bloody damn.
He turns his back, and then makes an agonized face, forcing himself not to look as Buffy reaches for her clothing.

- Xander: Yeah, when we went to deal with that vampire nest, she got all Rambo and torched the place. (Anya looks up) Something seriously bad is going on with her.

I can perfectly understand Buffy's reaction to Riley's betrayal. I would be pissed off as well. Still, we all know anger leads to the dark side...

- Spike and Riley:
I enjoy their interaction every time. It's interesting that Riley threatens Spike and scares him, but never kills him. I've somewhere read the theory that Buffy wouldn't forgive Riley if he hurt Spike, but I don't buy that. I think that Riley does have a sense of honour and killing a chipped vampire would feel wrong to him. In addition to this, I believe that he feels some kinship with Spike. They have both been hurt by the Iniative and are in love with the same girl.

Spike: Look at you. All afraid I'm hot for your honey.
Riley: (walks back toward Spike) Because you are.
Spike: Well ... yeah. But that's not your problem. Even if I wasn't in the picture, you're never gonna be able to hold onto her.
Riley puts his hand over Spike's hand that is covering the wound. He pushes his hand deeper into it.
Spike: Ow, bloody hell!
Riley: Maybe I didn't almost kill you enough.
Spike: (in pain) Come on. You're not the long haul guy and you know it.
Riley: Shut up.
Spike: You know it. Or else you wouldn't be getting suck jobs from two-bit vampire trulls.
Riley looks annoyed, lets go of Spike. Spike continues panting.
Spike: The girl needs some monster in her man ... and that's not in your nature... (He pushes away from the pillar, still holding his chest, and goes to sit in his chair) ...no matter how low you try to go.
Spike sits back with an expression of pain. Riley paces around restlessly. Spike reaches for his bottle and begins to remove the cork again.
Riley: You actually think you've got a shot with her?
Spike: No, I don't. (removes cork) Fella's gotta try, though. Gotta do what he can. (Drinks) Riley: If you touched her... you know I'd kill you for real.
Spike: I had this chip outta my head, I'da killed you long ago. (Replaces cork) Ain't love grand?

Somehow I think Spike/Riley slash could be interesting. :-)

- The argument between Buffy and Riley:
What I love so much about the Jossverse is that there are usually no simply black & white answers. During the argument I could understand the position of both Buffy and Riley. It's not as if one of them is perfect and the other all evil. They've both done some things wrong.

Riley has more blame at the moment, because he should *not* have started to have a dark affair with random vampires. However, I can see that his world got seriously shaken up and that he lost his self-esteem as a result. So yes, I can understand that there would come a time when he would slip and from then on get himself deeper and deeper into trouble.

What really annoyed me is that he gives Buffy an ultimatum. For one, you cannot push someone like this, pushing just makes things worse under circumstances like these. Being given an ultimatum would piss me off so bad, I would end the relationship right then and there - even though I would regret it later. By actually considering to leave Sunnydale, Riley also doesn't give himself and Buffy a chance to work on a reconciliation. Sometimes you need time to forgive someone and Riley doesn't allow Buffy this time.

In the end, their breakup isn't about Buffy's feelings or her lack of feelings, but about Riley's insecurities.

I know the big question in fandom is: Does Buffy love Riley or doesn't she?
In my opinion, she does love him. What she feels for Riley is not the passionate teenage love she felt for Angel (and which given time could have grown into a more steady love), it's a more calm and grown up kind of love. Loving Riley doesn't make her ecstatic with joy or downcast with misery, but he is her quiet centre, he gives her strength.
In my book, this is a declaration of love: I've given you everything that I have, I've given you my heart, my body and soul!
Oh, and Buffy also doesn't have random sex. If she has sex with someone it is, because she feels a deep connectio to this person. She wouldn't have a long term relationship with Riley, if he didn't mean a lot to her.

And because the dialogue of the argument is really well written, here follows a very long quote with only some cuts:
Riley: I think, when this thing started, it was just some stupid, immature game. I wanted to even the score after you let Dracula bite you.
Buffy: I did not *let* Dracula-
Riley: I know. On some level I know that. But I was still spun. (pause) I don't know, I - I wanted to know what you felt. I wanted to know why Dracula and Angel have so much power over you.
[...]
Buffy: Vampires. Killers.
Riley: They made me feel something, Buffy. Something I didn't even know I was missing until-
Buffy: I can't. I can't hear this.
[...]
Riley: They needed me.
Buffy: They needed your money. It wasn't about you.
Riley: (walks closer to her) No. On some basic level it *was* about me. My blood, my body. (sighs) When they bit me ... it was beyond passion. They wanted to devour me, all of me.
Buffy: (teary) Why are you telling me this?
Riley: It wasn't real. I know, it was just physical. But the fact that I craved it ... that, that I kept going back ... even if it was fleeting, they made me feel like they had such... hunger for me.
Buffy: And I don't ... make you feel that way? (Riley looks away) How on earth can you compare me to that? How can you tell me you understand what those vampires are feeling? You aren't a passion to them, you are a snack! A willing, idiotic snack.
Riley: (angrily) No, I know exactly what they feel when they bite me, because I feel it every time we're together. It's like the whole world falls away. And all there is is you.
Buffy: And you think that I don't feel the same way about you? How dare you tell me what I feel?
Riley: You keep me at a distance, Buffy. You didn't even call me when your mum went into the hospital.
Buffy: (incredulously) Oh, I'm sorry. You know, um, I'm sorry that I couldn't take care of you when I thought that my mother was dying.
Riley: It's about me taking care of you! It's about letting me in. So you don't have to be on top of everything all the time.
Buffy: But I do. That's part of what being a slayer is. (shakes her head) And that's what this is really about, isn't it? You can't handle the fact that I'm stronger than you.
Riley: It's hard sometimes, yeah. But that's not it.
Buffy: Then what? What else do you want from me, Riley? I've given you everything that I have, I've given you my heart, my body and soul!
Riley: You say that, but I don't feel it. I just don't feel it.
Buffy: Well, whose fault its that? Because I'm telling you, this is it, this is me. This is the package. And if it's so deficient that you need to get your kicks elsewhere ... then we really have a problem.
They both stare at each other silently for a mument. Then Buffy looks down. Riley sighs.
Riley: They want me back, Buffy ... the military. (Buffy looks up in shock) It's deep undercover, no contact with civilians. Transport's leaving tonight.
Buffy: Tonight? When were you gonna tell me about this?
Riley: I'm telling you now.
Buffy: Are you going?
Riley: I don't know. If we can't work this out...
Buffy: Then what? This is goodbye? (Riley shrugs. Buffy gets mad.) You are unbelievable. You're giving me an ultimatum?
Riley: No, I'm not.
Buffy: Yes you are! You expect me to get over it now or you're gone!
Riley: I don't, Buffy, that's not what I meant.
Buffy: Well, I have heard enough. (angrily) I will not take the blame for this. (Starts to walk away.)
Riley: I'm not asking you to. (Grabs her arm yet again)
Buffy: Let go of me! (pulls her arm away)
Riley: Or what? You'll hit me? (She stares at him. He spreads his arms out.) Go ahead. Come on, do it.
Buffy: Get out of my way.
Riley: I'm serious, Buffy, hit me. Hit me.
He walks right up to her. She walks around him and takes her jacket off a hook.
Riley: I'm leaving, Buffy.
She stops walking but doesn't turn to face him. He turns to speak to her back.
Riley: Unless you give me a reason to stay ... I'm leaving tonight.

- Love it that Xander talks to Buffy about the situation and makes her realise what she will lose when she allows Riley to leave.
It reminded me of the other time where Xander give advice to Buffy. (Can someone tell me in what episode that was exactly? I forgot.) Again lots of quotage, because Xander totally gets the relationship between Buffy and Riley and gives excellent advice.

Xander: Who cares if it's fair? In about twenty minutes, Riley's gonna disappear, maybe forever, unless you do something to stop him.
Buffy: What am I supposed to do? Beg him to stay?
Xander: (in disbelief) Why wouldn't you? To keep Riley here-
Buffy: I don't even know who he is any more. I mean, I thought he was ... dependable.
Xander: Dependable? What is he, State Farm?
Buffy: You know what I mean.
Xander: Yeah. I think you mean convenient. I think you took it for granted that he was gonna show up when you wanted him to, and take off when you didn't.
Buffy: Look who's talking. Look who has Anya following him around like a lovesick puppy.
Xander: Oh boy, is this *not* about me.
Buffy: Is she more than a convenience? 'Cause that would kinda be a surprise.
Xander: (angrily) If you don't wanna hear what I have to say, I'll shut up right now.
Buffy: Good, 'cause I don't.
She starts to walk off. Xander intercepts her.
Xander: I lied. See, what I think, you got burned with Angel, then Riley shows up.
Buffy: I know the story, Xander.
Xander: But you miss the point. You shut down, Buffy. And you've been treating Riley like the rebound guy. When he's the one that comes along once in a lifetime. (Buffy looks dismayed) He's never held back with you. He's risked everything. And you're about to let him fly because you don't like ultimatums?
Buffy's eyes begin to water as Xander's words finally get through.
Xander: If he's not the guy, if what he needs from you just isn't there, (shakes head) let him go. Break his heart, and make it a clean break. But if you really think you can love this guy ... I'm talking scary, messy, no-emotions-barred need ... if you're ready for that ... then think about what you're about to lose.

- Buffy comes to late to stop Riley from leaving.
This sucks for both of them. For Buffy because she relied so much on Riley and for Riley because he doesn't how much he mattered to Buffy and goes away believing she didn't care enough for him to show up.

I might have shed some tears at the scene if not for my boyfriend watching the show with me and doing impressions of Riley looking lost. So I admit to laughing at this very inappropriate time.

- Xander's declaration of love for Anya is cute.

Comments

Buffy is SUCH an Aries...

[chelsearoad.livejournal.com]

"Well, whose fault its that? Because I'm telling you, this is it, this is me. This is the package. And if it's so deficient that you need to get your kicks elsewhere ... then we really have a problem."

Again, I have enjoyed reading your write-ups...look forward to reading more when you have time.

[spikeylover.livejournal.com]

Little tidbits for you. When this episode initially aired, TPTB let it out that James had gotten a major role in either STAR WARS or STAR TREK (Can't remember which) and he was leaving the show. Of course, this was to throw people off, and when Riley stuck the stake into Spike--the fans would think that this was IT.

I agree that Buffy DOESN"T have random sex because even with Parker, she thought they were going to have a relationship. The writers always claim that Riley is rebound boy, but I swear, you are making me think about this Riley/Buffy love thing. ;) Interesting comments, to be sure.

Also, there is the most hilarious Riley/Spike slash vid.. Of course, they have to kind of split scenes, so I guess it would still have scenes that you haven't seen. (So yes, the thought has been out there)

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

but I swear, you are making me think about this Riley/Buffy love thing. ;)

Thanks. :-)

I liked Buffy/Angel as well, but felt that Angel would have been too patriarchal for Buffy in the long run. He worships her too much and also underestimates her inner strength.

I really liked Buffy/Riley - she overall had a healthy relationship with him - but I'm also intrigued by the possibilities of Buffy/Spike. From what I can see so far, Spike will be the only one of Buffy's men who doesn't leave her and can accept her dark side and her light side.

I don't really feel like choosing between the pairings. They all make sense for Buffy. After all she is growing and changing. Which is one of the reasons why I care for the show so much: All the characters develop over time. Very realistic.

[spikeylover.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, I am 100% sure that Joss and writers are all about characters, the ships are made to move the characters in a direction they want them to go in.. Online, i probably have more friends who are Angel/Spike shippers to be honest.

You know, when you get done watching, you get to listen to the writers commentary, so that will be fun, too. (It's really spoilery if you listen to it now...They go on about future episodes, so not good to watch if you are unspoiled)

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

I think after I've watched all the episodes, I'll ship Buffy/Spike/Angel. I could actually see that working out - despite Angel and Spike being so territorial. :-)

[spikeylover.livejournal.com]

Hee.. I'm a member of OTP 3. (buffy/Spike/Angel..)

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

Very cool! Would you mind if I used this lovely icon as well?

[spikeylover.livejournal.com]

I don't mind at all-- and there are more to choose from here..

http://www.livejournal.com/community/3_of_hearts/

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I picked some lovely OT3 icons. :-)

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

Oh, and could you give me a link to the Riley/Spike vid? I'll just save it and watch it later on.

[spikeylover.livejournal.com]

http://members.shaw.ca/pennydreadful/

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

Heh. I watched the vid already, cause it took me some time to figure out how to save it. It didn't spoil me though; there were simply some scene where I didn't know the context and that didn't tell me anything.

Such a fun vid. Riley and Spike really touch quite a lot - considering they are rivals. :-)

And the opening comment by Xander and Buffy's reaction to it is canon?! [giggles] Joss really knows how to make all the slash fans happy. :-)

[spikeylover.livejournal.com]

Bwa! Yes, that opening sequence was definitely on the show most likely to please the Spike/Xander shippers. It was quite hilarious when you see the whole episode.. (This is definitely in my top ten favorites from BTVS)

I believe Spike is the most shipped character on the show, by far.

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

From which episode is that scene, by the way?

[spikeylover.livejournal.com]

Intervention... You are getting closer.. (I believe it's either episode 5:18 or 5:19) It's a huge episode for Spike and Buffy that you can look back on to reference for the rest of the series, and it's also funny, too..

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

Work is so busy right now that I took a little viewing break. I'll try to catch up with my LJ posts a bit and then will watch more episodes on the weekend. I also don't want to go through the episodes too quickly. :-)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

This is a rather controversial episode in fandom, especially among people who ship Buffy with someone other than Riley.

Spike telling Buffy the good news: yep, entirely the wrong thing to do for understandable (from his pov) reasons. He is being petty and selfish, as people in love with someone who loves someone else are wont to be.

Riley not staking Spike: what you said. Also, I rather doubt either that Buffy wouldnt have forgiven him, or that Riley would have assumed that, not at this point of the show. Spike is still mainly the guy who tried to kill her only a relatively short while ago and has the mass murdering past. Yes, they also started to bond on various levels she is not entirely aware of, but she is definitely not in love with him here, or gives any impressions of being. She sees staking him as something dishonorable as he is defenseless right now, but she forgave Angel far more than that.

Riley and Spike interaction: can't serve with slash, but if you want a good story from someone who like you and me belongs in the minory who likes them both, check out honorh's vignette on that chat in Spike's crypt, "One Lucky Guy":

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/275810/1/

What really annoyed me is that he gives Buffy an ultimatum. For one, you cannot push someone like this, pushing just makes things worse under circumstances like these. Being given an ultimatum would piss me off so bad, I would end the relationship right then and there - even though I would regret it later. By actually considering to leave Sunnydale, Riley also doesn't give himself and Buffy a chance to work on a reconciliation. Sometimes you need time to forgive someone and Riley doesn't allow Buffy this time.

Same here. I can understand Riley`s position as well as Buffy's, but that was entirely the wrong thing to do. And regrettably fits into a pattern with Buffy's men - Angel didn't give her an ultimatum, but he made the decision for her (twice). Plus they both are convinced they know how she feels better than she does.

Oh, and Spike, for all his insight he can have in people, has his blind spot in this regard, too. I have this theory that he reads Buffy the less well the closer he gets to her. "She needs some monster in her man" - maybe. Except her relationship with Riley has lasted as long as her relationship with Angel (if you discount the Angelus months), and with far more time spent together. Also, it apparantly hasn't occured to him yet that the reverse - she needs some man in her monster - could be even truer...

Xander`s advice to Buffy: is also highly controversial. I'm in two minds about this. Because the vamp cheating and the ultimatum are somewhat more of a wrong on Riley'S part than Xander allows, and because yes, he is projecting a bit about Anya (Buffy is angry but not without a point when she says he treats Anya like a convenience a lot of the time). And I think Xander is majorly invested in Buffy's relationship with the human guy, the one of her boyfriends he actually likes and admires, to work.

On the other hand? Yes, she does shut down in times of crisis, and yes, sometimes she has been taking Riley for granted.

Xander giving advice: maybe you're thinking of the season 4 opener, The Freshman?

Love declaration for Anya: it's also very poignant. *gags self for spoiler reasons*

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

"She needs some monster in her man" - maybe. Except her relationship with Riley has lasted as long as her relationship with Angel (if you discount the Angelus months), and with far more time spent together. Also, it apparantly hasn't occured to him yet that the reverse - she needs some man in her monster - could be even truer...

Interesting point. I think Spike is trying to deceive himself here: He sees himself as a monster, so if he ever wants to have a chance with Buffy, he *has* to make himself believe that Buffy likes her men to be dark.

I think you're right regarding Xander's advice. I approve of his advice, because Buffy does care Riley and it would be much better her for her if she would have managed to stop Riley in time. The way the relationship with him ends, is just awful, because nothing is resolved.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

The way the relationship with him ends, is just awful, because nothing is resolved.

True, but here I can reassure you: like Oz, Riley will show up one more time in Sunnydale so the writers can give him and Buffy some kind of resolution. (Next season, though.)

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

Looking forward to it.

[spikeylover.livejournal.com]

Oh, and Spike, for all his insight he can have in people, has his blind spot in this regard, too. I have this theory that he reads Buffy the less well the closer he gets to her. "She needs some monster in her man" - maybe. Except her relationship with Riley has lasted as long as her relationship with Angel (if you discount the Angelus months), and with far more time spent together. Also, it apparantly hasn't occured to him yet that the reverse - she needs some man in her monster - could be even truer...

I think he is excellent at reading other people's relationships, but he has a blind spot when it comes to himself.

What I love is Spike's reaction when Buffy looks at him with daggers and runs away hurt. It may be Marsters bringing stuff into the shot, but the way it seems is that Spike was really surprised that Buffy was so hurt. I think he just wanted to end the relationship. Also when he and Riley are talking, he tells Riley that he doesn't think he has a shot, he just has to try. He doesn't encourage Riley, though--which he could have like Xander.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I think he is excellent at reading other people's relationships, but he has a blind spot when it comes to himself.

That about sums it up.

What I love is Spike's reaction when Buffy looks at him with daggers and runs away hurt. It may be Marsters bringing stuff into the shot, but the way it seems is that Spike was really surprised that Buffy was so hurt.

Which supports my argument that Spike becomes less good at reading Buffy the more he gets involved with her.*g* No, seriously, I agree that he was surprised, but that really shows a) Spike not thinking things through - Buffy had been hurt by the Parker fiasco, and Parker had been someone she had known for a short time and thought she was at the start of a relationship with (something Spike back then had used deliberately and effectively to hurt her, until he went over the top with the goading by bringing Angel up), whereas Riley has been her boyfriend for a bit more than a year now - and b) entirely ignoring that since Buffy isn't aware Spike is in love with her (attracted to her, sure, but not in love), his action would come across as malicious.

[spikeylover.livejournal.com]

For lack of a better description, Spike often suffers from diarrhea of the mouth. ;) For example, he was winning the fight in HARSH LIGHT OF DAY, until he mentions Angel.

I wonder how Xander or Willow would handle similar information? Buffy did deserve to know, but the way Spike did it, it didn't win him any points. Most likely he probably lost some, because I do think they had gotten closer in the few weeks of her mother's sickness.

Buffy and Spike are always an enigma, though--even at this point. IMO, she does like to play head games with Spike. --Yes, I'm naked under these sheets, but don't leave the room and wait outside--just turn your back--while I get dressed. Lots to ask for from an unsouled vampire.

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

For lack of a better description, Spike often suffers from diarrhea of the mouth. ;) For example, he was winning the fight in HARSH LIGHT OF DAY, until he mentions Angel.

I totally agree. Spike never ever shuts up, even when opening his mouth will just put him into danger. E.g. when he still pisses of Angelus in the Yorkshire despite the fact that Angelus is close to staking him ("Now you're getting it...") or when he goads Riley after he's already been staked by a plastic stake.

Somehow, I believe that this is what intrigues Angelus and why doesn't get bored with Spike as he did with Penn. He enjoys to be kept on his toes, even though he wouldn't admit it. :-)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

How Xander and Willow would have handled it: well, more often than not they're the worst secret keepers ever. Though I don't think either would have said something to Buffy. They'd have talked to Riley first, Xander because he likes and admires him, and Willow because she threatened to hit him with a shovel if he hurt Buffy, and would have told him that a) this had to stop, and b) he'll have to come clean with Buffy about it.

(As Thalia said, it would have been ooc for Spike to do this - plus his relationship with Buffy and Riley is different from theirs.)

[spikeylover.livejournal.com]

As I just viewed the next episode for analysis on CDS, it appears Spike is rather sorry about it. (the thing with the candy) Of course, then he beats her mannequin head off because all he gets is her scorn and anger. (I forgot how funny the episode TRIANGLE was all the way around.)

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

Yes, very funny episode. I believe this is the same box of chocolate he considers giving Buffy later on as a birthday present. LOL!

[spikeylover.livejournal.com]

Yes, and I believe Nibblet gives him hell over it..

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

his action would come across as malicious

What I like is that Spike does have mixed reasons for telling Buffy that are partly malicious, partly caring: Getting rid of his rival, showing Buffy that Riley is not good for her while he, Spike, is her true friend and impressing her with having discovered such a big secret.

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

I have mixed feelings about this ep, because I love 99% of it and HATE the ending. My theory is that the scene of Buffy running after the helicopter, and Riley not hearing it, is intended as a sendup of "character departure" cliches in movies & TV (there's a particularly famous episode of "ER" with Anthony Edwards chasing Sherry Stringfield's train that comes to mind) -- but that cheapens the ending, to me, because there's the implication that if she had caught him on time it would have gone differently, when the whole point of the rest of the ep seems to be that they're running into classic 'irreconcilable differences.'

Despite my issues with the ending, this one breaks my heart every time, and what I love about the argument between Buffy & Riley is that they both have good points. That long scene with the two of them really brings home how much of a relationship argument depends on point of view. I like that scene because the fight sounds like a real fight that a couple would have -- I don't think it's slanted toward one point of view or other. Now Xander's advice may be, a bit, but really what he's telling her makes sense because even if Riley is at fault for giving the ultimatum, it won't matter who is right if he has effectively disappeared off the face of the earth.

Spike's scenes in this ep are also terrific, and I think it's absolutely true that Riley doesn't stake Spike because it wouldn't be "sporting" (though that's the way Wesley would put it, I'm not sure what Riley would say --)

Finally, just to show what a spectacular Sondheim geek Joss really is -- the title "into the woods" is a brilliant one for this ep, for a lot of reasons, but my favorite is the way the Spike/Riley conversation about who got the "better deal" reflects the dialogue of the two princes in the musical "into the woods" (and of course I can't find my album or the lyrics now --

[spikeylover.livejournal.com]

Oh, yeah!! Sondheim, I totally am with you on that. I've always maintained that the song "No one is Alone" just nails the series and what it had to say.

[spikeylover.livejournal.com]

By the way, here's the lyrics of the two princes to AGONY in INTO THE WOODS by Sondheim:

[CINDERELLA'S PRINCE]
Did I abuse her
Or show her disdain?
Why does she run from me?
If I should lose her,
How shall I regain
The heart she has won from me?

Agony!
Beyond power of speech,
When the one thing you want
Is the only thing out of your reach.

[RAPUNZEL'S PRINCE]
High in her tower,
She sits by the hour,
Maintaining her hair.
Blithe and becoming and frequently humming
A lighthearted air:
Ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-

Agony!
Far more painful than yours,
When you know she would go with you
If there only were doors.

[BOTH]
Agony!
Oh, the torture they teach!

[RAPUNZEL'S PRINCE]
What's as intriguing-

[CINDERELLA'S PRINCE]
Or half so fatiguing-

[BOTH]
As what's out of reach?

[CINDERELLA'S PRINCE]
Am I not sensitive,
Clever,
Well-mannered,
Considerate,
Passionate,
Charming,
As kind as I'm handsome
And heir to a throne?

[RAPUNZEL'S PRINCE]
You are everything maidens could wish for!

[CINDERELLA'S PRINCE]
Then why no-?

[RAPUNZEL'S PRINCE]
Do I know?

[CINDERELLA'S PRINCE]
The girl must be mad!

[RAPUNZEL'S PRINCE]
You know nothing of madness
Till you're climbing her hair
And you see her up there
AS you're nearing her,
All the while hearing her:
Ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-ah-

[BOTH]
Agony!

[CINDERELLA'S PRINCE]
Misery!

[RAPUNZEL'S PRINCE]
Woe!

[BOTH]
Though it's different for each.

[CINDERELLA'S PRINCE]
Always ten steps behind-

[RAPUNZEL'S PRINCE]
Always ten feet below-

[BOTH]
And she's just out of reach.
Agony
That can cut like a knife!

I must have her to wife.

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

I really need to get Into the Woods and listen to the song. I only know some of the songs from this Sondheim musical.

High in her tower,
She sits by the hour,
Maintaining her hair.

*snickers* Reminds me of season 1 and season 2 Buffy a bit.

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

The ending: The long running scene can easily be made fun of. E.g. my boyfriend snarked: "See, if she had taken the car, this wouldn't have happened."

because there's the implication that if she had caught him on time it would have gone differently, when the whole point of the rest of the ep seems to be that they're running into classic 'irreconcilable differences.'

Not sure about that. I think the sad thing is that a lot of the argument was based on miscommunication, e.g. Riley feeling worthless and underappreciated and therefore seeking cheap thrills. Yes, it would have taken work for both of them to make their relationship last, but then I think that keeping a good relationship is worth some effort. By the way, I'm not saying here if Buffy only had been nicer to Riley, things would be fine. The big issue, IMO, is Riley's inner insecurity. He really needs to get his self-esteem back.

and what I love about the argument between Buffy & Riley is that they both have good points. That long scene with the two of them really brings home how much of a relationship argument depends on point of view.

Yes, that's why I basically quote the whole dialogue. The argument is *very* well written.

Spike/Riley fic

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

There's quite a bt of Spriley out there. The writer I'm most familiar with is trepkos and though I haven't read all of these, I recommend checking out her memories.

Re: Spike/Riley fic

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the link!
I'm not really convinced by the premise - Spike and Riley seem to get along way too soon - but I'll have to read more than the first chapter to form a fair opinion.

[spikendru.livejournal.com]

Somehow I think Spike/Riley slash could be interesting. :-)

Keeping n mind that I have a rather twisted sense of humor, my favorite Spike/Riley fic is A Question of Want by HarmonyFB. It allegedly takes place in S5, so you'd be okay spoiler wise.

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

Great rec!

Considering what Riley does with the female vampire after she has left him satisfied, what happens in this story is something I could see happening in a parallel universe.